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I work for a National chain and recently overheard the DM talking about a new policy where any mistakes caused by the Techs like broken bolts, broken parts, and damage to upholstery and wheels would be taken from the Techs pay to cover said damages. What do you guys think about this policy? Do you work under a similar policy at your shop?
I believe that if I’m going to now be personally responsible for covering 100% of part and labor cost when things go wrong, then I should get the profit from parts and labor when things go right. When is this endless war going to stop?
The war between management constantly trying to externalize all costs even to their own employees, and employees just trying to get paid for the quality work we do. They constantly widdle down our wage and book times and at the same time charge the customer higher labor rates. For what? So a CFO can manipulate the gain into figures that show growth?
And that’s the name of the game,”GROWTH.” Every company in every trade needs to show that their market share is growing, at all times, even when the market can’t support it.
Like Eric says, there has to be an alternative, and this new idea has to come from the bottom up, because the salary entrenched management has no motivation to improve things for the laborers that actually do the work that pays their salaries. Sorry for the rant, but I have friends in many fields and we all hear the same things, and one clear observation is that NO ONE has the techs best interest in mind in any trade.
This idea that Techs are disposable is not right, you are no more disposable than the President of your company or owner of your business. Remember, if your VP disappeared today, would there not be someone in his office the very next day making the same wrong decisions?
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I would think a National chain would have insurance to cover any damages. Well I think the policy stinks. So low flat rate pay and cutting labor times = move to the garage next door.
You always hear the saying, “Good techs are hard to find”. If it was me, after work I look for another place to work at. I’ll find out about there policy and benefits.
This time you have an advantage of negotiating on your pay rate. Think of this, they want you. How much are you worth. đ
The only time I would ever dream of charging a tech would be for gross negligence. Accidents happen and that is the reason we are insured.
I could understand the point about holding a mechanic responsible for damages if they caused a problem due sheer carelessness and a devil may care attitude.
However, I don’t buy into holding the mechanic at fault because of frozen bolts that snap off, seized spark plugs that bring the threads with them when they finally come out, or aged plastic that breaks or crumbles during disassembly, etc.Check state and Federal laws on this. As far as I know, it’s illegal to withhold anything from a paycheck that you do not consent to. That’s why an employee signs a W-4 form; to allow the withholding of income taxes.
Of course, if company policy involves signing a form under duress to allow withholding damages and the mechanic doesn’t cooperate then said mechanic may get unemployed very quickly.
There’s no end to the abuse that can be heaped upon a mechanic…… đI used to work at a shop where if you crashed a car they paid but you had to pay it back to the company. I guess they didn’t want any insurance claims.
If you constantly broke something they deemed as stupidity or carelessness they would deduct it from your pay. I saw someone drill a self drilling screw into a plastic fuel tank and the same guy broke a steering knuckle in half with a hammer. He had to pay.
I saw a real good tech ruin 2 new radiators in 2 weeks and they patted him on the head and said “that’s OK, you’re a good boy”. He made the Company thousands of dollars so they kissed his butt.
I knew that his problem was stress related but if I had done that I would have had to pay for it. Like I didn’t have stress.
Another time a tech left an oil drain plug loose, it fell out and the engine seized. He had to pay for a replacement and install it after hours and the weekend or face termination.
Yeah…….A real nice trade to be in.
Isnt it against the law to do such a thing? What’s next? We have to pay parts and labor for misdiagnoses?
[quote=”PsychoticMechanic” post=77684]Isnt it against the law to do such a thing? What’s next? We have to pay parts and labor for misdiagnoses?[/quote]
It depends on your state and depends on if you need that job or not.
The only time I would charge a tech is if they maliciously damaged something (temper tantrum) or if they were being lazy and failed to do something they knew or were told that they were supposed to do.
Another issue I have been seeing is many of the shops here in the south do not have insurance.
Exception: Gross Negligence, Dishonesty, Willfulness
If your employer can prove that you lost the employerâs money or broke the employerâs property through an act of âgross negligenceâ or an act that was âdishonestâ or âwillful,â the deduction is probably legal. Your employer will normally need to have some proof or witnesses to show that you were dishonest or grossly negligent; a simple accusation does not give your employer the right to make these deductions.
What is Gross Negligence?
Gross negligence occurs if you purposefully fail to follow your employerâs reasonable rules, and you then lose money as a result. For example, gross negligence may exist if your employer required you to use a calculator to add up the cost of goods sold and you made a mistake and charged too little because you refused to use the calculator. On the other hand, you may not have to pay the cost if you forgot to use the calculator or used the calculator, but you pressed the wrong key or forgot to include an item, and charged too little as a result.
The California Labor Commissioner does not automatically assume that you are grossly negligent just because a loss or mistake occurs or property is missing or damaged. Therefore, if you make errors as a result of adding mistakes, recording incorrect prices, or failing to include all items sold when charging customers, then your employer cannot deduct money from your check.
3. If my employer canât deduct my wages for losing money or property, can he still discipline me?
Your employer may discipline you regardless of whether your mistake was due to simple negligence, gross negligence, dishonest or willful conduct. But your employer may not make you pay for the loss out of your pocket unless it proves that you were you were dishonest, willful, or grossly negligent.Although your employer can discipline you for losing money or property, it canât discipline you because you objected to what you believed was an illegal deduction. This means, for example, that your employer can probably fire you if your register is short at the end of a shift. However, if the employer deducts or tries to deduct the missing money from your paycheck and you object because it is against the law, your employer cannot legally fire you because you objected. Sometimes this can be hard to prove because your employer will claim it is firing you for the loss of money, not because you complained about it, so it may be helpful to put your objections in writing (and keep a copy) so you can prove you objected right before being fired.
There are some changes from state to state, for example in TN if it is in the SOP that you have to pay for damages or mistakes it is legal for them to charge you as it is an agreed upon deduction.
And remember if you live in a “right to work” state, that actually means “right to fire you at will” often if you refuse to pay they will just fire you and call it a day.
And BTW just for information, this is the case that determined the laws concerning making employees pay for mistakes.
http://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/kerrs-catering-service-v-department-industrial-relations-29861
Now the sad part is most employers still deduct for errors and mistakes. For example, I have some friends that own a bar in town, they charge the tenders if they are short. In fact their policy is the tender has to balance it out that evening or they are fired.
The not so smart guys in the shop I work in pay for all the crap they mess up. In fact I’m drilling out cross threaded manifold studs on a 150 that one of them did last week. They have to pay me my rate during the repair and also have to pay for parts.
[quote=”Raistian77″ post=77689][quote=”PsychoticMechanic” post=77684]Isnt it against the law to do such a thing? What’s next? We have to pay parts and labor for misdiagnoses?[/quote]
It depends on your state and depends on if you need that job or not.
The only time I would charge a tech is if they maliciously damaged something (temper tantrum) or if they were being lazy and failed to do something they knew or were told that they were supposed to do.
Another issue I have been seeing is many of the shops here in the south do not have insurance.[/quote]
Welcome to the world of “right to work” where you have less rights and less work.I would say time to leave the job, move to a new state, or country and find a better job.
Some of the problems I’ve seen is that some dealers want to backflag a mechanic on a job in which the mechanic has done nothing wrong. It could be due to a customer whine about the bill total after the fact and which they were told in advance of the cost or a spineless service manager making a mistake. Example below and it’s not the only one:
Customer does his own initial service on his new car (he can do it himself cheaper he says…) and botches a few things. He brings it in demanding warranty because “the car is made of cheap materials” and “the factory lug wrench is inferior metal”.
As the shop foreman, I argued tooth and nail with the service manager that the company was going to eat these problems if they attempted to warranty them but the SM insisted on plowing ahead.Several weeks later the regional rep dropped in and came out in the shop to ask me for the inside scoop on it and which I gladly filled him in on. The company ate every last cent of the screwups that the car owner caused after the rep got through reaming the SM good.
Several days later when paychecks came out the mechanic who did this work was backflagged every dime. When the mechanic objected to this he was canned on the spot “as not being a team player”.
The legality of this is definately in question as these laws differ state to state. I’m curious what chain you work for, I have a few guesses, and yes I know you can’t say đ Either way, most companies I’ve worked for will give you a form and tell you it’s mandatory to sign it to remain employed, which ultimately means corporate can set policy as they please. but not necessarily follow through with the punishment. There’s definitely an intimidation factor as well. In any event, any technician worth their shirt will walk away from the deal you mention and find a better employer. Our industry is rife with murphy’s law (whatever can happen will happen) and as a previous poster stated, you cannot be held accountable for things beyond your control. Any good shop manager knows this and plans accordingly when selling a job, or can handle the fallout when the unexpected happens. Unfortunately in the disclaimer based society we live in where the corporations with their armies of lawyers on retention make the rules, your control of the situation is really limited to your choice of employer. The alternative is to hire a lawyer of your own and fight back… lemme know how that works out for ya! đ
I don’t work for a national chain, I work for a small independent shop. My boss has always been pretty understanding. Usually, if you make a mistake from time to time he will look past it, but some of the more reckless guys that seem to damage parts more often usually do lose a portion of the parts cost out of their pay. I don’t think it is very fair to make technicians 100% liable for things like that. We didn’t make the cars rusty or old. Naturally, plastic gets brittle, and parts seize together. Its just the way things are.
We are all human and we all make mistakes. With that said whoever owns the shop opened it to make money, but at the same time there are risks as a shop owner. The shop owner is making money on all the parts they sell and on the labor of all the techs in the shop. While the tech they have, that may have made a mistake, only makes money on the work he does. Part of the risks of owning a shop is your employees might make a mistake and might cost you a little money. If you dont want that risk then sell your business and go to work for someone else. Now if a tech screws something up you dont pay him to fix it, of course if the tech is hourly this may cause a problem. If the tech cant fix it and someone else has to then I reckon he would have to pay the other techs labor, but not the full shop labor rate, IMO. Of course if the mistakes happen often or is a huge screwup then you probly need to replace him.
As far as plastic parts breaking on an old car, no way am I paying for that. And old rusty bolts breaking, not paying for that. I am going to get paid to drill it out or whatever needs to happen to make the repair. It’s not my car and not my problem. And if I did the job and the service writer screws up and gives it away, thats fine but I better get my money.
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