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[quote=”ScottBlue5″ post=49629][quote=”randomman” post=48926][quote=”jeffrey” post=48737]So Mobile 1 isn’t a pure synthetic? (hhmmm..I hate it when a company bs’s me.) Is there a way to tell on the bottle? Group III’s or some such? …and what is the real deal?[/quote]
mobile 1 is NOT 100% man-made. it is a PAO blend (group 4). mobile 1 is still good. unless you track your car regularly there is no point in getting a pure group 4/5 oil[/quote]
As their website states, Mobil 1 is indeed a 100% synthetic motor oil using a Group IV PAO basestock, which is man-made.
Top performing synthetic oils typically deliver better fuel economy, more power/throttle response, superior high and low temperature engine protection, easier cold winter engine starts, superior lubrication/reduced engine wear, reduced emissions, an internally cleaner engine, reduced engine operating temperatures, etc. These are all benefits any motorist can take advantage of.[/quote]
people have tested mobile 1 and there is only a small amount of PAO in it
I’ll chose my words more carefully, the german manufacturers are more stringent than others when it comes to oil grades,testing etc, regardless of the vehicle brand / location etc,this is a good indication how good the oil is, so with 2 brands of 5w30 once might meet the manufacturers standards, one doesn’t.
The oil over here has API standards listed also so i presumed American oils listed ACEA (European).And i’m not german, i don’t particularly like working on german cars, new technology thats not needed in most cases as well as unreliable, it generally takes the japanese manufacturers to copy this tech to make it reliable.
[quote=”Lord Ihcalam” post=49637][quote=”ScottBlue5″ post=49627]
Most, “synthetic oils”, that you see down at auto parts stores, (and I suspect some of the O.E. vehicle branded, “synthetic oils” as well), are what is known as Group III, “synthetic oils”. These oils are merely petroleum oils subjected to more refining and they are not true Group IV PAO or Group V Ester based synthetic oils that can have a vastly greater film strength than petroleum, (Group II), and Group III, “synthetic oils”. These Group III, “synthetic oils”, also don’t share all the superior performance and protection characteristics that a true Group IV or Group V synthetic oil offers, such as superior high and low temperature performance/protection, superior heat transfer characteristics/reduced engine operating temperatures and traditional PAO/Ester based synthetic oils are totally devoid of all the naturally occurring contaminants that can’t all be refined out of a petroleum oil and this is one of the keys to understanding why PAO/Ester based synthetic oils are so superior.[/quote]
1:not the color of the oil the color of the bottle it comes in.
2: if it isnt full synthetic, i’m filing a class action lawsuit against Quaker State, penzoil and any other brand on the shelf that claims to have fully synthetic oil on the bottles label.
3: i take back the above, because after actually doing some research, quaker state is full synthetic http://www.quakerstate.com/#/motor-oil/ultimate-durability so is penzoil http://pennzoil.com/motor-oil/pennzoil-ultra-synthetic-oil/#Specifications%5B/quote%5DEven pennzoil ultra is “only” group III by their own admission on BITOG http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44624 (quoted here.. removed since pennzoil stopped their collaboration with BITOG).
In the MSDS it says
“2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil, consisting largely of branched, cyclic and linear hydrocarbons
having carbon numbers in the range of C18 to C50.
Highly refined mineral oils, synthetic hydrocarbon oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains <3% (w/w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent."Basically they use gas to liquid and hydrocracking and are nowhere near true fully synthetic. AFAIK the only place you can be 100% sure the label conforms to content is in Germany where synthetic means fully synthetic group IV and V. Everything else including blends must be labeled "teil-synthetic" or "part synthetic" in English.
More here http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1935277
[quote=”ScottBlue5″ post=49631][quote=”jay_ie” post=49614]With regards to oil grades look for the German manufacturers approvals, Mercedes,VW, BMW & Porshe on the back of the oil container.
As a rule of thumb these guys are really strict about oil quality so if it has their endorsement you can’t go wrong.
(you’ll be surprised how many top end oil Brands don’t)[/quote]Meeting the performance standards for motor oils intended for European cars is not an endorsement. It just means the oil meets the performance standard required by a given European car company, i.e. BMW LL-01. This is not a BMW endorsement, just an oil performance standard. In the U.S., we use API ratings, such as SL, SM and the most current is SN, but European car manufacturers have their own standards because the vehicles in Europe generally have to deal with very different usage compared to American cars, so the motor oils must meet very different performance standards as well. This is why the American Petroleum Institute, (or API), oil standards don’t apply to European vehicles and vice versa.[/quote]
Pretty sure that this is an AMSOIL PR blurp page http://www.ultimatesyntheticoil.com/articles/american_engine_oils_harmful_european_engines.htm
and that tighter tolerances, extended drain intervals etc. make European/Japanese oils superior to American oils (and they are much more expensive). Hence why BITOG members are hoarding EU spec Castrol etc.BTW AFAIK the API standard and ILSAC standard are very lax compared to European (especially German) and Japanese standards.
Another angle I’d like to see is diesel regular/part/synthetic oil in a gasoline engine. I’m running a 1987 Toyota Supra Turbo with over 145,xxx miles but the head was rebuilt and the block was in great shape, oil is Rotella 15w-40 and the theory explained to me was these diesel oils have more wear and anti-shearing additives and it also cost less.
My question is – Is this the big secret Big Oil doesn’t want us to know?
from Shell –
The Energized Protection of Shell Rotella heavy duty diesel engine oils provides protection in three critical areas:
1. Acid Control – helps protect against corrosion from acids formed as fuel burns and as the oil ages
2. Deposit Control – helps keep engine clean for optimum performance and long life
3. Wear Control – helps keep moving metal engine surfaces apart for long lifeIt is true.
Diesel oil in most cases covers petrol specs. I actually use diesel oil when it’s cheaper than the petrol equivalent.
I know I know I’m only new to this forum but I believe both Synthetic oils and Mineral oils have their places in the automotive world as well any other world where oils are used. Most newer cars will run better and smoother on Synthetic oil but this is because they are built for Synthetic oils such as older motors/vehicles have been made with Mineral oil in mind. Using Synthetic oils on older engines/vehicles can cause the oil to seep past seals or even cause overheating, “pinging” and blown seals in worse cases. I use Penrite and always have. They provide good quality Synthetic and Mineral oils. They also make oils to suit “vintage” vehicles. Sorry if I upset anyone but this is what I believe and have learnt from experience 🙂
Whether its conventional or synthetic oil, I think if you change the oil/filter and ensure the oil is at the proper level, then you will be good. I follow my owners manual and stick to the severe driving conditions.
royal purple is a great oil to use in those engines, they also make a high performance oil filter for it as well, and so does K&N. i use both the royal purple oil and the K&N filter on my car which is about ready to turn 300k. as for the mileage, it does help(somewhat), but as for the blow by…. there is a product called compression repair(made by rislone i believe) that can get you back some of that lost compression i swear by it and recommend it to all my riends. i use it on my car and truck, and the dyno guy where matt farah from the smoking tire took his friends VW actually recommended it for their project. they make two different sized bottles, one for 4,6, and 8 cylinders, as well as 6,8, and 10 cylinders. for the 4.7 i would recommend the 4 to 8 cylinder bottle. around 14 dollars a bottle last time i bought it. not exactly the cheapest stuff, but youre already buying royal purple oil.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=46013]I’m sure this one will have a few opinions, I look forward to yours.[/quote]
Hi Eric I just watched your response video “Re: Regular Oil vs Synthetic Oil -EricTheCarGuy – YouTube”. It was very interesting. Two things you said in the video go against the conventional wisdom I was taught and I wonder if you would address them.
1. Synthetic motor oil is ok in your lawnmower.
CW: You should not put any detergent additive motor oil –synthetic or regular– in a lawnmower. Lawnmowers are supposed to have detergent free motor oils because the particles should not be disturbed and should settle. There is no filter in a lot of lawnmowers.2. It’s ok to mix synthetic and regular.
CW: It’s one or the other, and don’t mix them. I remember reading somewhere that it can cause a sludge like if you mix certain antifreezes (that is a big problem with vws). I don’t know if it’s due to the differences in detergents, the friction and ability of synthetic to be porous or what.If you could address these two points that would be great. Also if you changed your original post to add an FAQ or something because this thread is huge (oil threads are always huge I know.. everyone has two cents..) so there’s no way I’m going to read all the posts and I don’t think most people will either. Just a wiki page or something with the latest information or bullet points or something. For all I know someone has covered the above two points I raised.
Thank you for your videos they have been very helpful.
[quote=”passat03wagon” post=79871][quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=46013]I’m sure this one will have a few opinions, I look forward to yours.[/quote]
Hi Eric I just watched your response video “Re: Regular Oil vs Synthetic Oil -EricTheCarGuy – YouTube”. It was very interesting. Two things you said in the video go against the conventional wisdom I was taught and I wonder if you would address them.
1. Synthetic motor oil is ok in your lawnmower.
CW: You should not put any detergent additive motor oil –synthetic or regular– in a lawnmower. Lawnmowers are supposed to have detergent free motor oils because the particles should not be disturbed and should settle. There is no filter in a lot of lawnmowers.2. It’s ok to mix synthetic and regular.
CW: It’s one or the other, and don’t mix them. I remember reading somewhere that it can cause a sludge like if you mix certain antifreezes (that is a big problem with vws). I don’t know if it’s due to the differences in detergents, the friction and ability of synthetic to be porous or what.If you could address these two points that would be great. Also if you changed your original post to add an FAQ or something because this thread is huge (oil threads are always huge I know.. everyone has two cents..) so there’s no way I’m going to read all the posts and I don’t think most people will either. Just a wiki page or something with the latest information or bullet points or something. For all I know someone has covered the above two points I raised.
Thank you for your videos they have been very helpful.[/quote]
As for the lawn mower, I really don’t see the harm but if you do, then it’s perfectly OK if you don’t use it. Mixing oils is perfectly fine. In fact most synthetics you buy are blends of conventional oil and synthetic anyway. Synthetic oils are DESIGNED to mix with conventional oil. If they weren’t, you’d have to completely flush the engine before you used them and that’s not the case. In fact, companies even advertise their compatibility with conventional oil.
If you complaining about how long a thread gets, think of how I feel and how many questions I answer here. BTW, the posts are also searchable via the database if you’re looking for quick answers.
Thank you for your comments and suggestions.
[quote=”passat03wagon” post=79871]
2. It’s ok to mix synthetic and regular.
CW: It’s one or the other, and don’t mix them. I remember reading somewhere that it can cause a sludge like if you mix certain antifreezes (that is a big problem with vws). I don’t know if it’s due to the differences in detergents, the friction and ability of synthetic to be porous or what.
[/quote]Um, not correct
https://valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/synthetic-blend-motor-oil/
Durablend offers a premium blend of synthetic and conventional base oils, plus advanced additive technology provides added protection against severe driving. As a synthetic blend oil, Durablend gives you heavy duty protection against tough driving conditions from stop-and-go traffic to long engine running time. It’s advanced protection in moments when conventional oils have a tendency to begin to break down.
Synthetic blend motor oils work harder and longer than convention oils to provide enhanced engine protection. And, in cooler temperatures, synthetic blend oils hold their viscosity, which gives your engine protection even at start up. Conventional oils and synthetic blends are fully compatible, so you can make the switch to the advanced protection of Durablend without risk to your vehicle.
Almost all synthetics use a crude base oil when it comes to automotive oils.
Group I and II – these are mineral oils derived from crude oil
Group III – this is a highly refined mineral oil made through a process called hydrocracking. In North America this group is considered a synthetic oil, for marketing purposes.
Group IV – these are true synthetic oils, known as Polyalphaolefin (PAO).
Group V – these are synthetic stocks other than PAO’s and include esters and other compounds.This might be where you heard the gumming up of engines from.
Because rotary engines inject small quantities of motor oil into the combustion chamber to lubricate the apex seals, and burned synthetic oil causes gummy deposits on the apex seals, synthetic oils are not recommended in automotive rotary engines.[4]
Very well said… now if we could just make people believe it, half the threads at BITOG would be obsolete…
Karl
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