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Mornin’ redfury,
So, a quick question. Is your vehicle currently fixed and running fine, or are you looking for suggestions on how to fix? I can’t tell exactly from your post whether the issue has already been resolved or not (“…I’ll post what the solution was”). Keep us posted and we’ll go from there. Thanks.
Nope, no solution yet. I did shoot a quick couple of videos with my cell phone though. I had hoped it was going to be something simple, like a hose disconnected or something.
What has me perplexed is the fact that the van was running perfectly, no codes, none pending and then I install the e fan and now I’m getting this code, which I hadn’t gotten before. I’m getting the code at idle, the freeze frame data is at idle. I have a custom programmed computer, but just a baseline program. I had the rear 02’s deleted and the EGR disconnected as I was having EGR codes initially when I got the van. We don’t have emissions testing here, so I wasn’t worried about that causing problems. It’s physically there and hooked up electrically, but the computer doesn’t control it, it stays closed.
I have a true dual exhaust and the drivers side ( which is the freeze frame data code ) exhaust smells rich and I get vapor out of it with a little “exhaust smudge” on the bumper above it, whereas the passenger side is much cleaner and blows clean…smells normal @ idle.
The one thing I found odd though, I pulled the doghouse off and on top of the intake manifold was a thin gauge wire spring about 2 1/2 inches long and about 3/8ths in diameter. I’ve been in there often and never noticed that before. I can’t imagine what it goes to, if anything…but my bat senses tell me to look into it further and try to figure out where that could have come from.
Thanks for the added info. Usually a lean code will be set by vacuum leaks. I would double check all the vacuum lines as well as the connections at the intake and air filter box. Maybe something got accidentally disconnected during the mechanical fan removal / E-fan installation.
I know this is obvious, but just in case I want to say it: Don’t breathe too much of those exhaust fumes. That’s bad for your health. Be safe!
You said you have a hole in the air intake system behind the cone filter. More info?
How does the MAF look? I know that the oil on those cone filters can cause MAFs to get build up on them. Don’t remember what that causes (still in school, not actualy doing this professionally yet).
I’m stumped so far, but very interested to know more.
Did pcv valve come loose or maybe it’s malfunctioned?…Check that and all vac hoses going to and from intake….Good luck
Pulled the doghouse off and did some checking. Some of the questions answered first though. The cone filter is a Spectre non oiled filter. You refer to the oil getting on the MAF sensor causing problems with it being able to read properly. I have cleaned the MAF with MAF cleaner, but I think I will give it another shot as I did not reclean it after I blew a load of tranny fluid out of the vehicle during a catastrophic line rupture ( 6 quarts blown out ) I did notice a little oil residue in the bellows when I was servicing it during the E fan installation.
Every connection I could find inside the engine compartment appeared to be functioning properly.. the PCV was replaced earlier this summer because it was being very noisy, though to be honest, I wasn’t hearing the buzzing noise it made even after replacing it now that I think about it, and it is on the cylinder bank that is giving me the freeze frame data, though that should affect one bank like that as it services the entire engine block.
I did both a fuel pressure test and a vacuum test. I’ve got video of the fuel pressure test and the vacuum test gave me 18 in/hg @ idle with a rock solid needle, it reacted to throttle input as one would expect it to, pretty much the same way my fuel pressure gauge did. I replaced the fuel filter last weekend with the thought that maybe I was having a restricted flow problem and couldn’t deliver enough fuel. The fuel pressue test confirmed that I was getting the pressure I need, though I did not perform a flow test to see if I was pumping the amount of fuel needed. However, since the problem is at idle and not under load, I don’t suspect a fuel delivery problem being the culprit…even if the pump has the whine to it.
One thing that drew a curious flag was a small spring on top of the intake manifold just sitting there. I don’t recall seeing it there before, but I can’t put my finger on what it could possibly belong to. It’s 2 1/2 inches long and about 3/8 to 1/2 inch in diameter and it’s a pretty weak spring..very flexible like something you’d see holding something in place, more than something that would help reset something to a position. Short of it possibly being from under the dash when I took the doghouse off, I can’ t place where it would/should go.
I’m going to upload the video I did take and then post it here so you guys can see what I’m dealing with…I might be overlooking something simple.
Since the installation of the E-fan, how has the vehicle’s RPMs at idle been? Also, with the removal of the mechanical fan, is the same belt(s) used on all the pulleys? I am assuming that by removing the mechanical fan, there is less “load” on the engine when running, especially at idle. Could this compromise the computer’s settings (look-up tables) for air/fuel ratio while at idle?
Honestly all I had to read was ‘custom programmed computer’ and the flag went up. In a situation like that it’s hard to say if the computer is getting bad information or not, there may be no problem at all and the computer is just confused because it is programmed with a different fuel map. Adding an electric fan would have nothing to do with it but the fact that you hooked it up to the ‘engine’ fuse may also have contributed, cooling fans are high amp circuits and need to have their own power source, you may have tied into the computer power circuit and to be honest this would reek havoc with a computer since they like a steady voltage supply in order to function properly. In short you may have inadvertently created your own issue by doing this. I suppose if you could read the data list and look at the fuel trims you could see if it’s really running lean or not, that might be a place to start.
As a technician I can say that I really hate to see modified vehicles come in for this very reason as you have no idea what the baseline is because the stock numbers and procedures will no longer apply making things very difficult to diagnose.
Like Eric said, you never know what your getting into when the vehicle has modifications.
I would start by hooking the fans directly up to the battery with with a relay and switch
Just flick them on when you start the vehicle.We need to see what the fuel trims are saying. Pid data is essential for trouble shooting this type of symptom. A good scanner can give you freeze frames From what I gather you don’t have a good scanner. You have a 98 with a 99 engine and a 2001 savana PCM. Likely you have screwed with this one to much and need to resort back to proper 98 astro pcm.
Okay, to sort out some misinformation/understanding….and I can totally understand where you guys are coming from-I tied the trigger voltage for the solenoid that allows power to start and run the E fan. I’m using a dual solenoid set up at the moment, where I’ve tapped into KOKO power with a 20 amp fuse to trigger the fan and am running power to the fan itself directly off the battery accessories port on the fuse block ( engineered in for conversion van conversions )
In short , the fans are wired in in a similar fashion to a factory installation. I could get the computer to control the solenoids for the fans, but I don’t have the programming capability to do that. And as far as the computer goes, it’s running pretty much the same as a 2001 Chevy Express van, with the tire size and fuel tank size changed to accommodate for the different sizes to keep the fuel and speedo accurate. Also, since the Astro only had 1 rear 02 sensor, it was simply removed from the fuel mapping, as well as the EGR valve. This type of mod has been done dozens of times, and as a base tune, the van has run beautifully. It starts immediately, idles @ 650rpm smoothly and doesn’t belch out a plume of black smoke upon heavy acceleration. I was getting 15.56 mpg consistently with it until this code hit…the last tankful returned 14.87mpg, so I’ve lost half a step.
The bigger issue for me right now is the smell of exhaust in the van after driving it for a few miles, which makes me question the exhaust donuts. I had to pull the exhaust down to bore out the O2 bungs on the dual exhaust because the original holes weren’t drilled large enough for the new O2 sensors. I reused the donuts as they seemed to be in really good shape still, being that the exhaust had just been put on the van recently. There are no catalytic converters on the van either ( MN doesn’t require them currently…no inspections ).
I took video of my scanner with freeze frame and running PID data. I will get it loaded to my youtube account and post it back here tomorrow/today. Short term fuel trim was hovering around 5-7 on bank 1 and 3-5 on bank 2 if I recall correctly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHW4rzoyVGY Okay, found the video I was looking for.
Apparently I do not have any video of the data…I thought I had transferred it from my camera before cleaning up my files, but I must not have, so I’ll have to rescan the van and get the hard numbers.
Here’s a thought about the situation that I thought about today. I changed the thermostat to the stock 192F stat from the 180F that was in there thinking that it would help with my fuel mileage so that the fuel trim wouldn’t run too rich due to the lower engine temps.
During the first warm up of the van and anytime the thermostat closes after sitting after being shut off for a while, the temp gauge rises a decent amount past the actual running temp of the van once the T stat opens. I’m wondering if I have a sluggish T stat or if the increase in temp is causing the engine to run lean and set a code as my freeze frame data was set while the van was idling up to temp the last time I cleared the code. I think I may clear the code after the van has had a chance to cool off and see if the CEL comes on during the operation of the T stat. It would make a certain amount of sense since the code wasn’t being set before, but now that there isn’t a mechanical fan cooling the motor or the coolant until it’s reached a certain temp that the engine may run the fuel trim on the lean side.
I dunno, I’m just taking a bit of a stab in the dark with this. Anyone think that that is a plausible explanation or just BS?
freeze frame data
P0174
TPS 0%
RPM 641
Cal Load 3.1
MAF .95
MAP 10.0 hg
coolant temp 174
LTFT1 19.5
STFT1 0.0
LTFT2 18.8
STFT2 -2.3I cleared the codes and drove the van up to operating temps and the light didn’t come on until I restarted the van after having breakfast with the wife for about 30 minutes.
It was a foggy morning at about 56F outdoor temps and we had had some precipitation the day before, the van ran the same as it has been. On the way back however, we started to smell the exhaust again about halfway back from where we were, about a 8 or 9 mile drive. Didn’t smell anything on the way there however. I’m beginning to wonder if it isn’t the exhaust donuts causing the problems. If both sides were leaking after they warmed up a bit, but leak at different rates, then it would make sense that we’d start to smell fuel as well as get the lean codes. I guess I’m going to replace the donuts just to be sure, since they are only about $12 and a half an hour to replace and we’ll see what happens.
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