Suspension Fixing On A ’94 Accord.

[Sean]

Shortened post:
My car shakes when braking from high speeds.
Its brand new rotors, not new pads.
I have bad ball joints, tie rods; upper and lower both sides, new ones coming next week.
I just replaced the wheel bearings, since they were the main cause of front end play.
Now its just the aforementioned items, and very little play on my front suspension, and yet the problem ensues.
In fact, the shaking when braking issue hasn’t changed at all after I replaced the wheel bearings. (However I do know the bearings were bad, simply from feeling how the new ones move compared to the old ones)
No vibrations on highway cruising, only on highway braking.

Well, I did some more research and I finally found a topic online that helped me out. Seems that it could be several things causing the shaking:
I didnt clean the mounting area for the rotors to the hubs
I may have over-torqued the lug nuts, I used the spare tire lug nut changer as tight as i could go.
The rotors may not be true from the factory.
There isnt really an issue, its just my bad ball joints and tie rods allowing the front end to vibrate.
Rear end issue.

If you guys know of any other causes I would greatly appreciate if you shared it.
In the meantime I will have to replace the suspension parts coming in this coming week, get an alignment and get back to you guys.

Topic

[college man]

[quote=”DaCoder” post=152334]Shortened post:
My car shakes when braking from high speeds.
Its brand new rotors, not new pads.
I have bad ball joints, tie rods; upper and lower both sides, new ones coming next week.
I just replaced the wheel bearings, since they were the main cause of front end play.
Now its just the aforementioned items, and very little play on my front suspension, and yet the problem ensues.
In fact, the shaking when braking issue hasn’t changed at all after I replaced the wheel bearings. (However I do know the bearings were bad, simply from feeling how the new ones move compared to the old ones)
No vibrations on highway cruising, only on highway braking.

Well, I did some more research and I finally found a topic online that helped me out. Seems that it could be several things causing the shaking:
I didnt clean the mounting area for the rotors to the hubs
I may have over-torqued the lug nuts, I used the spare tire lug nut changer as tight as i could go.
The rotors may not be true from the factory.
There isnt really an issue, its just my bad ball joints and tie rods allowing the front end to vibrate.
Rear end issue.

If you guys know of any other causes I would greatly appreciate if you shared it.
In the meantime I will have to replace the suspension parts coming in this coming week, get an alignment and get back to you guys.[/quote]

The possible causes you listed are true. If your feeling the vibration when braking then
rotors would be suspect. more in this link.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/determining-the-causes-of-vehicle-vibrations

[Sean]

[quote=”college man” post=152370][quote=”DaCoder” post=152334]Shortened post:
My car shakes when braking from high speeds.
Its brand new rotors, not new pads.
I have bad ball joints, tie rods; upper and lower both sides, new ones coming next week.
I just replaced the wheel bearings, since they were the main cause of front end play.
Now its just the aforementioned items, and very little play on my front suspension, and yet the problem ensues.
In fact, the shaking when braking issue hasn’t changed at all after I replaced the wheel bearings. (However I do know the bearings were bad, simply from feeling how the new ones move compared to the old ones)
No vibrations on highway cruising, only on highway braking.

Well, I did some more research and I finally found a topic online that helped me out. Seems that it could be several things causing the shaking:
I didnt clean the mounting area for the rotors to the hubs
I may have over-torqued the lug nuts, I used the spare tire lug nut changer as tight as i could go.
The rotors may not be true from the factory.
There isnt really an issue, its just my bad ball joints and tie rods allowing the front end to vibrate.
Rear end issue.

If you guys know of any other causes I would greatly appreciate if you shared it.
In the meantime I will have to replace the suspension parts coming in this coming week, get an alignment and get back to you guys.[/quote]

The possible causes you listed are true. If your feeling the vibration when braking then
rotors would be suspect. more in this link.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/determining-the-causes-of-vehicle-vibrations%5B/quote%5D

Thanks I read up on that, also I have been doing more research today.
Found another “could be” issues

I did not bed in the new rotors, or get new pads

This whole thing has got me pretty annoyed. Its so much work to replace those rotors and only to have the exact same issue arise.
I am just going to have to drive it until i get my new suspension parts in, and replace those, then take off the rotors and my new bearings, and clean everything, then have the rotors machined, then torque everything back on…

And apparently someone said that a stuck caliper piston could somehow cause this too? The passenger side piston is a little bit stuck compared to the drivers side, and the pads are unevenly worn on that side. I did relube the sliders, which I thought would help, but on removing them for the bearing replacement I found they were sticky again and not smooth sliding.

Lots of variables, guess I’ll just have to wait for another day off of work to redo all this shizzle.

[Sean]

[quote=”college man” post=152370][quote=”DaCoder” post=152334]Shortened post:
My car shakes when braking from high speeds.
Its brand new rotors, not new pads.
I have bad ball joints, tie rods; upper and lower both sides, new ones coming next week.
I just replaced the wheel bearings, since they were the main cause of front end play.
Now its just the aforementioned items, and very little play on my front suspension, and yet the problem ensues.
In fact, the shaking when braking issue hasn’t changed at all after I replaced the wheel bearings. (However I do know the bearings were bad, simply from feeling how the new ones move compared to the old ones)
No vibrations on highway cruising, only on highway braking.

Well, I did some more research and I finally found a topic online that helped me out. Seems that it could be several things causing the shaking:
I didnt clean the mounting area for the rotors to the hubs
I may have over-torqued the lug nuts, I used the spare tire lug nut changer as tight as i could go.
The rotors may not be true from the factory.
There isnt really an issue, its just my bad ball joints and tie rods allowing the front end to vibrate.
Rear end issue.

If you guys know of any other causes I would greatly appreciate if you shared it.
In the meantime I will have to replace the suspension parts coming in this coming week, get an alignment and get back to you guys.[/quote]

The possible causes you listed are true. If your feeling the vibration when braking then
rotors would be suspect. more in this link.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/determining-the-causes-of-vehicle-vibrations%5B/quote%5D

New parts are installed, cleaned, torqued, etc. And i got an alignment. No more steering slop, however; The rotors are warped (brand new) and one didnt even mount up centered? When i spin it around i can see it move up and down almost 1/4th an inch, ill have to show you in a video. Note this is not lateral runout, rather offcentered on the hub.
I still have a minor brake pulsation on stops, and steering shake on stops, also very minor shake at 60-70 mph ONLY and wobble issues on turning left. Might be a tire / balance issue, although i might have autozone replace those rotors for me, since one wont even mount correctly? I dont know if that would cause a vibration, but the other one went on fine, only the drivers side has that weird issue.

Lastly, the struts are leaking now, when i bought the car they werent. Its really cheap aftermarket struts, the one Eric mentioned he didnt like that start with ‘G’…

Im thinking il fix the motor mounts first, then return to the suspension at a later date, aka im tired of jacking up my car and wrenching on the same parts lol.

[Tom]

First off, buy, borrow, acquire a torque wrench, and try to get at least a halfway decent one. If you are doing suspension / steering work it is absolutely a must have tool.

When you take a brake apart, if you bleed the old fluid out of the piston the way Eric does in his videos (clamp the brake hose just above the caliper, attach a bleeder hose / cup, open the bleeder screw, then seat the piston) you should be able to seat the piston with little more than hand pressure, or a small pad spreader. If you are getting in there with the big C clamp, and having a difficult time seating the piston with that, your caliper needs to be rebuilt, or replaced.

As long as the piston seats without much difficulty, then things should be ok. You can clean the slider bolts with some brake parts cleaner and a wire brush. Inspect the rubber covers that the slider bolts go through. If they are cracked or torn, buy a brake hardware kit. Clean out the holes that the slider pins go into. Again, a round brush (can get ’em cheap at harbor freight) and some brake parts cleaner will do the job nicely. Lubricate the nice clean pins with silicone paste, or one of those little packets of disc brake lube (don’t use wheel bearing grease for this job). Make certain that the stainless steel clips are in place on both ends of the caliper bracket so that the pads fit in snugly. They shouldn’t be a TIGHT fit, you should be able to install them with minimal difficulty, but they shouldn’t be loose either. Those stainless clips should get a bit of silicone paste too. Not so much that it will get onto the rotors or pad surface, just a thin coating so that the backing plates for the pads can move easily back and forth in the clips.

Final bit, make sure that the bit stainless clip is in place in the caliper. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve found those missing from Accords! If any of those clips are missing, mangled, broken, etc, buy a hardware kit for the front brakes and replace them all, as well as those rubber covers for the sliders.

Once you do all of this, your front brakes are good to go. Clean the hub area with a wire brush. Wipe a thin coating of never seize on the hub so your rotor won’t corrode into place. Clean your new rotors with brake parts cleaner to get off all the stuff they put on at the factory to keep them from rusting before you buy them. Make sure your pads are clean, spray the braking surface with brake parts cleaner if necessary. If the pad braking surface is not smooth and uniform, put a sheet of sand paper down on a scrap of wood (maybe 100 grit or so) and rub the pad, braking surface down, on the paper until you get a smooth surface.

Since you are using old pads, make sure to follow some sort of bed in procedure to get them acquainted with the brand new rotors. Final thing, when assembling everything, be sure all bolts / fasteners and lug nuts are torqued to factory spec. That SHOULD eliminate ANY possibility of pulsation / shaking caused by the front brakes.

[Tom]

As for struts, on a budget, I have had pretty good luck with KYB GR2 struts. NOT a good choice if you are lowering your Accord, but if it is left at stock ride height, you should get a pretty reasonable life out of them, and they can be had for a bit more than $50 per strut.

[Sean]

[quote=”Tomh” post=153492]First off, buy, borrow, acquire a torque wrench, and try to get at least a halfway decent one. If you are doing suspension / steering work it is absolutely a must have tool.

When you take a brake apart, if you bleed the old fluid out of the piston the way Eric does in his videos (clamp the brake hose just above the caliper, attach a bleeder hose / cup, open the bleeder screw, then seat the piston) you should be able to seat the piston with little more than hand pressure, or a small pad spreader. If you are getting in there with the big C clamp, and having a difficult time seating the piston with that, your caliper needs to be rebuilt, or replaced.

As long as the piston seats without much difficulty, then things should be ok. You can clean the slider bolts with some brake parts cleaner and a wire brush. Inspect the rubber covers that the slider bolts go through. If they are cracked or torn, buy a brake hardware kit. Clean out the holes that the slider pins go into. Again, a round brush (can get ’em cheap at harbor freight) and some brake parts cleaner will do the job nicely. Lubricate the nice clean pins with silicone paste, or one of those little packets of disc brake lube (don’t use wheel bearing grease for this job). Make certain that the stainless steel clips are in place on both ends of the caliper bracket so that the pads fit in snugly. They shouldn’t be a TIGHT fit, you should be able to install them with minimal difficulty, but they shouldn’t be loose either. Those stainless clips should get a bit of silicone paste too. Not so much that it will get onto the rotors or pad surface, just a thin coating so that the backing plates for the pads can move easily back and forth in the clips.

Final bit, make sure that the bit stainless clip is in place in the caliper. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve found those missing from Accords! If any of those clips are missing, mangled, broken, etc, buy a hardware kit for the front brakes and replace them all, as well as those rubber covers for the sliders.

Once you do all of this, your front brakes are good to go. Clean the hub area with a wire brush. Wipe a thin coating of never seize on the hub so your rotor won’t corrode into place. Clean your new rotors with brake parts cleaner to get off all the stuff they put on at the factory to keep them from rusting before you buy them. Make sure your pads are clean, spray the braking surface with brake parts cleaner if necessary. If the pad braking surface is not smooth and uniform, put a sheet of sand paper down on a scrap of wood (maybe 100 grit or so) and rub the pad, braking surface down, on the paper until you get a smooth surface.

Since you are using old pads, make sure to follow some sort of bed in procedure to get them acquainted with the brand new rotors. Final thing, when assembling everything, be sure all bolts / fasteners and lug nuts are torqued to factory spec. That SHOULD eliminate ANY possibility of pulsation / shaking caused by the front brakes.[/quote]

TY for the reply, but i dont think you read my post. I have a torque wrench, and i did everything you listed. Im following erics brake videos, and the car i have has captive rotors… When i put on the new rotors, the passengers side caliper slide pins were stuck, cleaned them and lubed them, they were stuck a week later, so im thinking i should clean out the inner slide bores like you said.
Finally have you ever seen a new rotor that when installed you spin and find its not centered on the hub? That and tires / wheels is the only thing left that could cause this issue.

[EricTheCarGuy]

Sounds like the quality of your parts is at issue. Loose suspension parts do not cause that issue. Hub runout or rotors that aren’t true can cause that. You were correct to clean the mounting surfaces as this can lead to excessive run out.

I would suggest a better quality rotor to start with. If you still have the issue, take the car somewhere where they have an on-the-car brake lathe. This machines rotors right on the car and eliminates any issues with runout.

I cover this in this article I wrote about brakes.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-brake-problems

I do not recommend KYB struts for Honda. They ride like garbage. Gabriel are just as bad. If you can get your hands on some Koni’s you might have a chance. Otherwise I recommend you save up for OE. If not, it will never ride the same. Although if you’re not running Michelin tires you’re missing out on the ride quality anyway. Hondas are VERY picky about the tires you put on them.

More info on solving vibrations here.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/determining-the-causes-of-vehicle-vibrations

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Tom]

I have never seen a rotor with that particular issue, but cheap Chinese parts . . . . sometimes you get what you pay for. That being said, I also run those cheap Chinese rotors, and haven’t had any problem with them.

[Sean]

[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=153529]Sounds like the quality of your parts is at issue. Loose suspension parts do not cause that issue. Hub runout or rotors that aren’t true can cause that. You were correct to clean the mounting surfaces as this can lead to excessive run out.

I would suggest a better quality rotor to start with. If you still have the issue, take the car somewhere where they have an on-the-car brake lathe. This machines rotors right on the car and eliminates any issues with runout.

I cover this in this article I wrote about brakes.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-brake-problems

I do not recommend KYB struts for Honda. They ride like garbage. Gabriel are just as bad. If you can get your hands on some Koni’s you might have a chance. Otherwise I recommend you save up for OE. If not, it will never ride the same. Although if you’re not running Michelin tires you’re missing out on the ride quality anyway. Hondas are VERY picky about the tires you put on them.

More info on solving vibrations here.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/determining-the-causes-of-vehicle-vibrations

Good luck and keep us posted.[/quote]

I went to get them turned at a shop and one was fine, the other however (no joke the mechanic told me this just as i got the notification that you replied) was a defective rotor, that his brake lathe couldnt fix.

I got the Duralast brand.
I went back to Autozone and exchanged it, got it turned, test drove… Aaaaand its perfect.

Only the slightest of vibrations at 65 mph exactly (no other speed) and NO brake pulsations or steering shake.

Needless to say im a happy guy as of right now.

Also Eric, my sisters bday is Nov 30th, no joke.

Now on to the thermostat and motor mounts.

[Tom]

Never discount the possibility of cheap parts being made cheaply! Glad you got it pretty well under control now!

That slight vibration at 65 could be caused by a number of things. I’m not sure that an engine mount is likely to be the cause, BUT if you know it’s bad, then go ahead and take care of it. Your vibration could be a tire a little out of balance, or a problem with one of your tires (such as a bulge / bump you don’t see) or even a bit of a tweak / bend in the wheel. You can try rotating tires front to back and see if the vibration moves with the wheels. That would help you to narrow down the cause.

[Author]

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