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You have a couple options…
Helicoil repair it (drill, tap and thread in a new insert/threads) to use original size bolt.
Drill and re-tap (with larger bolt to hold it)
– Karl
Karl,
I want to try to tap it first because drill access sucks and will require renting or buying a right angle drill. Also no heli-coil available in my town from what I can find so I waste more time waiting for mail order.
1/4-20 or 1/4-28? I have both in an old snap on tap and die set… Or would you be bold and go for 5/16-24? Someone on some forum said 1/4 doesn’t give enough metal for threads in a 6mm stripped hole. Probably true.
EDIT: Now I got massive issues All the 5/16 inch tap did was tear up the hole and didn’t cut threads. So now I got a bigger hole and no threads. Help! Maybe even make a bracket out of 1/4 inch steel that hooks into the hole on the water pump, is between the block and the motor mount that is right next to the water pump and holds that corner of the water pump down?
How about getting a big flange nut such as an M12 flange nut and putting it on the backside of the hole in the motor mount above the water pump? The hole is right above where that bolt that is striped goes, because it’s supposed to allow access with the motor mount in place. Big nut on the back side, bolt through the top hole through the nut and pushing on the waterpump right on the hole?
If that wouldn’t work, pay someone to weld the flange nut on top of the hole on the motor mount and just tighten a bolt down on the waterpump? The bolt will press right where the head of the stock bolt presses down.
The most important thing you can do before tapping any hole is to drill it to the proper size…
Read the second post I did on this link that shows the chart of the proper drill sizes towards the end of the post..
Not to sound like a jerk, but stop for a second and breathe….
I still would recommend a Heli-coil… If you have boogered up the hole too big, it is still OK…. Get the next sized heli-coil and drill and tap and thread properly with the next sized bolt that can fit in…
Next, drill out the size of the “new” bolt stud through the waterpump (just widening the original hole) with the chart from the link I gave you (It says ‘close fit’ and ‘standard fit’)… It will say what the Outside diameter of the bolt going through should be drilled to….
Pics can help…
We can probably help you here, just put the drill and taps away for a second (and the Welder) and we’ll work this through..
If you need assistance understanding something, just ask for clarification..
P.S. There will be some who will say you can fill the hole with JB weld and re-tap…. I ain’t one of em… Not for a waterpump anyway…
-Karl
Well, I don’t have a broken bolt so that’s good! But I do have a hole that is max at this point because it’s getting into where the waterpump seals. I’m going to try to include a picture. I tried the 5/16 inch tap and it just messed it up. Thinking about the nut on the motor mount idea and filling the hole with locktite and making threads.
Wondering if I stick the stock bolt through the hole in the waterpump then do the thing with the flange nut on the back of the engine mount and push down on the head of the stock bolt with the 12mm or 10mm bolt.
Here’s a picture. Bolt hole on the left. One on the right is of course the motor mount right hand hole. I tried to add a picture as an attachment but when I submit, the picture isn’t there.
If by messed up, you mean crooked, then it looks like you have enough space for this fix.
There are oversized heli-coils, but they are still coils (not solid). There is another company called TimeSerts that makes similar items (better imo, but more costly). The specific one you want is called “BigSert” that is for correcting mistakes or re-tapping a hole (I’ve used it on a timing belt idler that’s still going…hopefully). TimeSerts are solid and will be ok if you drill a slightly larger hole.
They have an adapter that you can get to press against the engine to force your drill bit to go in straight. Another option I’ve used are the race bearing installation tools to keep my bit straight. Too bad engines aren’t easy to move to a drill press :angry:
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=96112]
P.S. There will be some who will say you can fill the hole with JB weld and re-tap…. I ain’t one of em… Not for a waterpump anyway…
-Karl[/quote]
I totally agree withy you! JBWeld and other epoxy’s just aren’t meant for that stress. If something gets really screwed up 1) tap bigger or 2) put a bolt in, cut it off, and retap.
One guy said if I do the bigsert, I might drill too deep and get into the water jacket? The only way to drill there is with an angle drill. I could rent one though, that’s not the issue. I guess I need the kit close to a 5/16 inch hole, I can’t drill bigger without taking out the sealing surface of the water pump. I still wonder about putting a nut on the engine mount access hole and running a bolt down to the head of the stripped bolt to apply pressure. Thought about lock tite thread maker and hondabond on the corner. Thought about all three. Thought about nutsert but they don’t have one that size, smaller and larger. If I can get the BigSert in the correct diameter, that might be good.
Think I might need BigSert 56101 and tap guide 75605. However, on TimeSert’s website, they only list the length of the inserts, not the diameter.
[quote=”clearanceman” post=96159]One guy said if I do the bigsert, I might drill too deep and get into the water jacket? The only way to drill there is with an angle drill. I could rent one though, that’s not the issue. I guess I need the kit close to a 5/16 inch hole, I can’t drill bigger without taking out the sealing surface of the water pump. I still wonder about putting a nut on the engine mount access hole and running a bolt down to the head of the stripped bolt to apply pressure. Thought about lock tite thread maker and hondabond on the corner. Thought about all three. Thought about nutsert but they don’t have one that size, smaller and larger. If I can get the BigSert in the correct diameter, that might be good.[/quote]
Drilling too deep is always a concern. What I often do to prevent that is put painters tape on the drill bit at the depth I want my bolt to stop. I also only drill out my holes by hand, so that could solve your space problem. It is slower, but unless I’m using a press I feel it’s less likely to make a mistake (that’s just me). The bigsert was essentially flush with the rear timing cover, so I don’t believe it should be an issue. it does have a slight bevel that could be an issue if your water pump gasket is a metal one rather than a rubber one I suppose. I couldn’t say much about the nut on the back method or the threadmaker.
I don’t envy your position and wish you positive outcomes here.
I’m not even sure how to drill by hand in that situation. Here is a picture of the engine mount from two different angles. That hole is an access hole to access that very nut on the waterpump when the engine mount is in place. The idea is to put a flange nut on the back side and then run the bolt down to the head of the stripped bolt to apply pressure. It’s going to have to be a M10 or M12 probably (got to go to the hardware store but only one car). M10 would match the head of the stock waterpump bolt exactly. Other thing that could be done is weld a flange nut to the top of the hole and run the bolt down to apply pressure to the head of the stock waterpump bolt. Honestly, with a bolt that big, the big concern would be not applying to much pressure. The other four bolts on the pump position the pump, that corner just needs pressure, not positioning.
Sorry about the blurry. I’m inclined to put pay someone to weld a M10 or M12 flange nut to the top of the hole on the mount and then run the correct length bolt down to press on the top of the head of the stock bolt to apply pressure. The hole is exactly center of where that bolt is and is a completely stable solid platform as it bolts directly to the block next to the water pump bolt using three large bolts.
The waterpump bolt is torqued to 9ft. pounds, I could exert 100ft. pounds that way if I wanted to. The trick will be getting the correct length bolt and not cranking down too much (washers to set depth maybe). Locktite to hold in place or locking flange nut if I can find one that big. Going to get a nut and bolt tonight and see if it works behind the mount. Because there is some question as to whether a steel flange nut can be welded to a cast iron motor mount.
If that’s not going to work, I need to find the proper bigSert insert and kit for my application and try. I hate to get to the point where I need a new block though.
The other thing, if I could find the exact length spacer, I could put a spacer between the hole in the motor mount and the waterpump so when the mount is cranked down, it puts the correct pressure on the pump.
Before you get happy with the drill, make sure you have the correct bolt in the correct hole. Those bolts are of different length. I believe the upper right and lower left if I remember correctly. There are 2 that are longer than the others. Make sure you have the correct fastener in the correct hole before you condemn it. You might want to remove all the fasteners and look for the longer ones and insert one of them into the hole you’re concerned about to see if it will tighten up.
Thanks, Eric but I’m sure. It’s 6MM X 1 and about 7/8th inch long. I shouldn’t have tried to tap the hole. All the bolts are this length, except the one where the tensioner spring is attached, it’s a lot longer.
wondered if I could put a spacer between the mount and the water pump to put pressure where the bolt would be or pressure on the bolt head. You know the access hole in the mount that’s right above that bolt? Thought about nut behind that hole (flange nut) or welded to top of the mount. Then a bolt could be used to apply pressure to that very spot on the water pump.
I went to lowes and bought an M10 1.50 X 50mm bolt and M10 1.50 flange nut. Few of them, they came in a pack. Mocking it up, it is possible to position the flange nut on top of the access hole in the mount so the bolt will end up on the top of the water pump hole with the stripped screw. I’m going to try to go to a welding shop tomorrow and see if they can weld it in place in the right place to make it line up. Might end up with a slightly shorter bolt (40mm or 45mm), but if it works, I’ll take a picture. If it doesn’t I have to attempt some sort of thread maker. I’m most worried about making the hole bigger, any bigger and I’m into where the rubber gasket lays. Not good.
I don’t think you’ll be very successful trying to repair the hole inside the vehicle unfortunately. If you end up having to go there, you’re better off pulling the engine to do the repair.
Good luck and keep us posted.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=96280]I don’t think you’ll be very successful trying to repair the hole inside the vehicle unfortunately. If you end up having to go there, you’re better off pulling the engine to do the repair.
Good luck and keep us posted.[/quote]
I think you are correct. I dropped off the mount at the welders. We’ll see. They thought probably best to weld the nut (M10 1.50) inside the access hole. I just told them it needs to be straight in there. Then put the old bolt in the hole and pin it with a M10 1.50 X 40mm bolt through the nut welded in the access hole. The bolt diameter is the same as the head diameter of the old bolt. If they got it straight, it should push down directly on the head of the bolt. Couple washers and some locktite…. I also got some locktite stripped thread repair but I’m not sure I’m going to use it because if it runs out of the hole, it will make a mess of the sealing area for the waterpump. I think the horizontal orientation of the hole means that idea is out and the fact I can’t make the hole even one mm bigger without impacting the sealing surface means I hope this idea with the nut welded in the access hole works or I may be pulling the engine after all.
I’d hammer a nutsert in there but they don’t make one for a 5/16 inch hole. The welding shop also recommended a helicoil but if that hole gets any bigger at all, it’s going to cut into the sealing surface for the pump and if that thing won’t seal, I’m probably going to have to buy another block and transfer everything over. I’ll probably put hondabond on the outside of that corner too, but the M10 bolt pushing on the 6mm bolt head would give plenty of force.
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