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Hello,
I’ve been visiting the site for a little while now and have finally decided to make an account. I tried to look around to see if this question has been asked before, but I couldn’t find a search capability for the forums.
I own a 2010 Ford Taurus SHO, which is notorious for its mushy brakes. I’ve replaced the pads and rotors with better quality parts (Centric rotors and EBC Red Stuff pads) and it made a pretty big difference in terms of braking capability and even helped a bit with the pedal feel. I’ve heard from a few sources that replacing my brake hoses with stainless braided would make the biggest difference in pedal feel (short of an upgraded master cylinder). Can anyone verify that this is true? Also, I’ve heard that since they can’t be inspected the same way a rubber hose can that I would need to proactively replace the hoses every 2 years. Is that correct? I would hope that they would last more than a couple years! Thanks!
Anthony
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it all depends on the vehicle and its current lines, some say it makes no difference, some say it does, i have heard more people say it makes a difference including Eric because it doesn’t allow the rubber too expand as much giving you a harder feel of the pedal… it is a VERY common upgrade to do with the F body brake caliper swap when people are modifying grand prix cars.
a F body brake caliper swap is taking the single piston caliper and set of rotors and there mounting brackets off a W body car like my grand prix, and putting on F body duel piston caliper brakes off a Camaro or Firebird, they bolt right on with little modification, all you need are the F body bolts caliper mounting bracket and rotor, and steel braided brake lines are commonly added too firm up the pedal because the bigger brakes make it feel squishy.
Buy DOT approved hoses. They should be good for years. Still, someday, if you keep the car long enough you will wonder since you can’t see them.
like i said, some like them, some don’t… barneyb has a point, if you do get them it is a little difficult too tell how deteriorated they are, its all about what risks you are willing too take i guess… I have actually heard Eric recommend them as a brake upgrade, but once again barneyb does have a point, you can observe the condition of the rubber part of the hose unlike that of the steel braided brake lines.
I’ve installed them on a few of my vehicles and it does make a decently big difference. Pedal feels firmer, you have more confidence in braking (because the rubber cannot expand and possibly pop), and are just a little bit more than the part stores lines (so reasonably cost effective. One thing to think about is how many 10 year old cars are actually out there with factory brake lines. There are a ton. So if you get quality braided brake hoses, they will last for years as well. Personally, I prefer Goodridge. They make everything to order (custom setups or factory design (for fittings and lengths). They are DOT approved and their lines typically test 15% or better over DOT specs.
[quote=”atowler” post=106269]Hello,
I own a 2010 Ford Taurus SHO, which is notorious for its mushy brakes. I’ve replaced the pads and rotors with better quality parts (Centric rotors and EBC Red Stuff pads) and it made a pretty big difference in terms of braking capability and even helped a bit with the pedal feel. I’ve heard from a few sources that replacing my brake hoses with stainless braided would make the biggest difference in pedal feel (short of an upgraded master cylinder). Can anyone verify that this is true? Also, I’ve heard that since they can’t be inspected the same way a rubber hose can that I would need to proactively replace the hoses every 2 years. Is that correct? I would hope that they would last more than a couple years! Thanks!
Anthony[/quote]
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1. The problem with the 2010 Taurus SHO is that it is a 4350 lb car with adolescent brakes. In later years the rotors and calipers have been upgraded in the SHO to increase the swept area and increase brake performance. (I believe the master cylinder and brake booster were also upgraded).
The problem area or limiting area for you now is not the type of flexible brake lines you install but the size of the rotors and pads, most especially the front.
If you want to significantly improve braking performance beyond what you can achieve with new rotors and pads of the stock size, you need to upgrade the front rotor size and pad size.
2. I have never had mushy brakes on a street car equipped with stock rubber brake hoses. If you do it is most likely that you still have some air in the brake system and you are compressing air somewhere in the lines before the fluid is moving down the line to the calipers.
3. I have seen claims from retailers that if you fit their braided SS hoses to your street car you will significantly improve the braking distances on a panic stop compared with a new set of quality rubber hoses. Like this one:
“Stainless steel braided brake lines outperform their rubber counterparts in three main areas:
Reduces your vehicle’s braking distance
Provides faster brake pedal response
Greatly improves braking force modulation”I have never seen an independent test where 2 or 3 different brand of street cars with the same test driver were fitted with new quality stock brake rubber hoses and maximum brake tested and then the same cars were fitted with braided SS hose and maximum brake tested again over a number of stops. If someone knows of such an independent test I would like to read it.
Responsible retailers do not make such claims about braided brake hose. Nor, I notice do they claim the braided lines will out last any other product (as I have seen some claim). For example this retailer:
“When considering the replacement of stock rubber brake hoses with stainless braid-protected hose of extruded Teflon you should consider the following facts:
……………………The use of stainless braid protected Teflon brake hose assemblies will result in a firmer brake pedal, improved brake pedal “feel” and better brake modulation. These hoses will not necessarily provide longer hose life or any other advantage.
…………………………………… Teflon brake hoses must be installed by an experienced professional mechanic. After installation each hose must be both clean and free flowing. There must be no possibility that the installed hose assemblies can stretch, crimp or kink under any conditions of wheel travel and steering angle. As with any hose installation, periodic inspection of hose condition is essential.”
4. I have upgraded the front brakes on one of my street cars with larger rotors and Brembo 4 spot calipers. The brakes are great, the pedal is as firm as I would like and I run stock rubber brake hoses.
In fact many expensive high performance ex factory street cars out there with big brake packages run rubber brake hoses. Since braided lines are not very expensive, you would have to ask why they don’t just fit the braided product because they sure look way better.
I did not run braided lines on my circuit race car either nor did any of the other top running cars in the category even though we could. Good quality flexible rubber hoses were more than up to the task between the fabricated steel brake lines and the brake caliper. They were very easy to inspect for condition, they were durable, the hose connections were proven and they were easy to replace if needed.
5. By all means fit a quality DOT approved braided SS brake hoses. There is no good reason not to (other than hose inspection issues).
But this will not resolve the braking shortcomings of your car, namely front brakes that are marginal and not quite up to the task in a 4350 lb car.Bear in mind that these braided hoses are not rubber hoses wrapped in SS braid. SS Braided hose for brake applications are manufactured typically with PTFE (Teflon)inner tube which carries the fluid. Without the SS protection (or other tough protective wrap) the teflon would eventually fail from external damage and would never be approved for use in either racing or on street cars and bikes.
You might find these articles of interest:
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/wheel9.shtml
http://www.jag-lovers.org/xj-s/book/SSBrakeHoses.html[quote=”cam0888″ post=106409][quote=”atowler” post=106269]Hello,
I own a 2010 Ford Taurus SHO, which is notorious for its mushy brakes. I’ve replaced the pads and rotors with better quality parts (Centric rotors and EBC Red Stuff pads) and it made a pretty big difference in terms of braking capability and even helped a bit with the pedal feel. I’ve heard from a few sources that replacing my brake hoses with stainless braided would make the biggest difference in pedal feel (short of an upgraded master cylinder). Can anyone verify that this is true? Also, I’ve heard that since they can’t be inspected the same way a rubber hose can that I would need to proactively replace the hoses every 2 years. Is that correct? I would hope that they would last more than a couple years! Thanks!
Anthony[/quote]
======================================================================================
1. The problem with the 2010 Taurus SHO is that it is a 4350 lb car with adolescent brakes. In later years the rotors and calipers have been upgraded in the SHO to increase the swept area and increase brake performance. (I believe the master cylinder and brake booster were also upgraded).
The problem area or limiting area for you now is not the type of flexible brake lines you install but the size of the rotors and pads, most especially the front.
If you want to significantly improve braking performance beyond what you can achieve with new rotors and pads of the stock size, you need to upgrade the front rotor size and pad size.
2. I have never had mushy brakes on a street car equipped with stock rubber brake hoses. If you do it is most likely that you still have some air in the brake system and you are compressing air somewhere in the lines before the fluid is moving down the line to the calipers.
3. I have seen claims from retailers that if you fit their braided SS hoses to your street car you will significantly improve the braking distances on a panic stop compared with a new set of quality rubber hoses. Like this one:
“Stainless steel braided brake lines outperform their rubber counterparts in three main areas:
Reduces your vehicle’s braking distance
Provides faster brake pedal response
Greatly improves braking force modulation”I have never seen an independent test where 2 or 3 different brand of street cars with the same test driver were fitted with new quality stock brake rubber hoses and maximum brake tested and then the same cars were fitted with braided SS hose and maximum brake tested again over a number of stops. If someone knows of such an independent test I would like to read it.
Responsible retailers do not make such claims about braided brake hose. Nor, I notice do they claim the braided lines will out last any other product (as I have seen some claim). For example this retailer:
“When considering the replacement of stock rubber brake hoses with stainless braid-protected hose of extruded Teflon you should consider the following facts:
……………………The use of stainless braid protected Teflon brake hose assemblies will result in a firmer brake pedal, improved brake pedal “feel” and better brake modulation. These hoses will not necessarily provide longer hose life or any other advantage.
…………………………………… Teflon brake hoses must be installed by an experienced professional mechanic. After installation each hose must be both clean and free flowing. There must be no possibility that the installed hose assemblies can stretch, crimp or kink under any conditions of wheel travel and steering angle. As with any hose installation, periodic inspection of hose condition is essential.”
4. I have upgraded the front brakes on one of my street cars with larger rotors and Brembo 4 spot calipers. The brakes are great, the pedal is as firm as I would like and I run stock rubber brake hoses.
In fact many expensive high performance ex factory street cars out there with big brake packages run rubber brake hoses. Since braided lines are not very expensive, you would have to ask why they don’t just fit the braided product because they sure look way better.
I did not run braided lines on my circuit race car either nor did any of the other top running cars in the category even though we could. Good quality flexible rubber hoses were more than up to the task between the fabricated steel brake lines and the brake caliper. They were very easy to inspect for condition, they were durable, the hose connections were proven and they were easy to replace if needed.
5. By all means fit a quality DOT approved braided SS brake hoses. There is no good reason not to (other than hose inspection issues).
But this will not resolve the braking shortcomings of your car, namely front brakes that are marginal and not quite up to the task in a 4350 lb car.Bear in mind that these braided hoses are not rubber hoses wrapped in SS braid. SS Braided hose for brake applications are manufactured typically with PTFE (Teflon)inner tube which carries the fluid. Without the SS protection (or other tough protective wrap) the teflon would eventually fail from external damage and would never be approved for use in either racing or on street cars and bikes.
You might find these articles of interest:
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/wheel9.shtml
http://www.jag-lovers.org/xj-s/book/SSBrakeHoses.html%5B/quote%5Dquite the lengthy post… lol.
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