[SOLVED] Mitsubishi Lancer 1.3 GLX – Several problems

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hello everyone,

We bought a new car just last week. When we went to see it and get it I inspected the car as best as I could and couldn’t find any major problems: a few aesthetic ones and the biggest thing I could find were a few tiny holes (maybe 4 or 5) in the exhaust pipe, a bit after the catalytic converter. No big deal I thought because a few weld dots and the problem would be solved. The car is from 1997 and runs on Gas and LPG. It has just under 100k miles (159k Km) which we thought to be good.

We made the trip home without any problems: the car ran good on gas and on LPG and had no performance issues.

One day after we got it home a few problems started appearing. I will explain them all because they seem to jump around from one thing to the other.
On the first day in our home, the car had problems starting. We had to crank it for a while and then it would stall more or less on its own. If we accelerated (but not the whole foot down to fast) it could rev up. This problem appeared on both gas and LPG. My father, the owner of the car, called the previous owner who told him that this is because the spark plugs installed are special for LPG and that this is a normal behaviour until the car warmed up. I am pretty sure that is not the case but I might be wrong. Other than that, the holes on the exhaust remained the same and the car drove more or less ok if we pressed hard enough on the pedal. In other words, the car seemed to be loosing power on both LPG and Gas.

One day later I made the mistake of doing a “free performance upgrade” 😛 I tightened the cable on the throttle because it had some slack. This led to the car having another weird behavior: on gas, if I put my foot down the car would rev up normally. On LPG, if I did the same the car would stall. However, if I pressed the accelerator pedal slowly enought (instead of 1-100% in less than on second), it would rev up just fine. I undid the “performance upgrade” and this problem disappeared.

Yesterday I decided to put some aluminium tape on the exhaust to reduce the noise just until the weekend when I’ll have more time to properly weld it. This proved to work ok at the moment.

This morning a few other problems arouse: the car had problems starting (although it was cold out, the car was inside where there were around 59ºF (15ºC) and outside there were around 40ºF (5ºC). When it started it had no power neither or gas nor LPG and it made a lot of smoke. A few moments later the aluminium foil broke and the car still had a very rough idle. The smoke then started disappearing but 3 minutes later I looked under the car and saw both the catalytic converter and another part of the exhaust, I think that it is only tube glowing red hot. While this was happening, I verified that smoke was coming of the exhaust with what I think is enough force. The car, even with the foot down, wouldn’t rev up very much in neither LPG or Gas. After seeing this, we shut the car down and I put it in the garage again (maybe one hour later). It seemed to have a bit more power again.

After lifting the car up I removed what remained of the aluminium foil tape and checked the holes that increased in size (quite a bit). The exhaust doesn’t seem to have a lot of corrosion (in fact, I’d say that it is quite alright) which I find odd.

So this is everything that happened until now. But I noticed another thing: it might be just my impression but I think that the car, on Gas, makes a very smelly smoke from the exhaust. What I mean by smelly is that it seems to smell a lot of gas.

Yesterday I tested the spark plugs cable. I couldn’t remove the spark plugs because for some reason, I don’t have a socket that fits over them (tried every size). I measured the resistance and 3 of them had what I thought to be over the limit (8,5k, +/-) and one of them under the limit (5k +/-). I also tried another thing: with the motor running, I disconnected each spark plug, one by one. In all of them I noticed the roughening of the motor sound but in one of the cylinders it toke a lot longer to notice when compared to the other ones (instant versus a few seconds later).

Upon searching online for reasons for this problem (that seems to jump from one thing to another) the most common solutions are:
For the rough idle/loss of power/etc: bad sparkplugs/sparkplug wires/distributor, LPG tuned incorrectly, valves needing tuning, bad injector or bad mixture.
For the red hot catalytic converter: clogged pipe somewhere or valves needing tuning.

I tried to disassemble the exhaust but there is one screw that is set on not coming of. From that I could see it seemed to be not clogged. I removed the muffler and a lot of corroded metal came flying out when I put the car working but the other problems remained the same. ´

Any ideas on how to solve this whole thing? Thank you very much in advance! 🙂

Topic

[Mike]

Yes, bad spark plug wires can certainly cause the problems your car is having.
Think about it, if the spark doesn’t travel to the spark plug, but instead jumps to the nearest metal or the wire next to it, the engine can’t run properly.
The fact that the car barely wants to run when the wires are damp is typical of faulty wires.
Switching wires from one cylinder to the next is not going to cure this..

This link has a few more ideas on testing the wires.
http://www.wikihow.com/Test-Spark-Plug-Wires

You can also inspect the coil to be sure that it is not cracked and you can test the coil for excessive resistance.

You can sometimes see where the spark has been leaving the wire as small white spots.

NGK wires are excellent quality and it appears that they manufacture 3 different wire sets for the 1997 Lancer 1.3L
I looked on http://www.NGK.de for listings–and NGK probably manufactured the original wires.
https://www.ngk.de/nc/en/product-finder/produktfinder/PKW/ZUENDKABEL/
It appears that the set is NGK 9302 , as it is the only 5 wire set. ( The 2 other sets are only 4 wire sets.)
I don’t know if it is worthwhile to have them shipped from Spain but here is a link, anyway.
https://www.amazon.es/NGK-9302-Juego-cables-encendido/dp/B005NB7946/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1489610332&vehicle=77-979-1549-5579-1-0&sr=1-1&keywords=9302

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hey!

Thank you for your great help. I will buy the set. Just a few questions:

I’ve seen ones from Magneti Marelli for around 9€ + shipping with 5 wires. I have also seen a few others with only 4 wires. However, I think that my car only uses 4 wires (one for each cylinder). Where does the fifth go?

The bottom of the spark plug boot is very cracked on the cables in the middle (where the problem is).

I just need to make sure that I will buy the correct version (4 wires vs 5 wires) and what brand I can buy. I saw the following cables that seem to be compatible:

Ones from Magneti Marelli, 5 wires for around 9€
Ones from JapanParts with 4 wires for ~19€
Ones from NGK with 4 wires for ~25€
Ones from NGK with 5 wires for ~30€. All prices need shipping that is 10€.

I’ll be honest: at the moment, I’d prefer going with the cheap part (as long as it would solve my problem) and maybe in one year or next revision, replace them with NGK ones. Would this be a viable solution?

Thank you!

[Billy]

The 5th wire goes from the coil to the dizzy. Get that.

[Tiago Ferreira]

I might be wrong but I don’t think that my dizzy has that connection. How can I verify? Either way the 5 wire set will be compatible even if I only use 4, right?

[Billy]

Oh, I guess you have a distributor with the coil built in? I didn’t even know those existed. In that case, you just need 4.

Can you post a pic to be sure?

Oh hey, have you ohmed out the coil? Sorry, should have occurred to me long ago. Find out the specs and use your multimeter to check it.

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hey,

Yes, the coil is built in. I’ll put a photo as soon as I get home.

I haven’t ohmed the coil yet. I’ve found a manual that lists every dizzy available on lancers of this age and year with guide of how to measure but I wasn’t able to identify the correct one. I’ll look into that.

Thank you!

[Mike]

[quote=”tgferreira” post=185312]
I’ve seen ones from Magneti Marelli for around 9€ + shipping with 5 wires. I have also seen a few others with only 4 wires. However, I think that my car only uses 4 wires (one for each cylinder). Where does the fifth go?
I’ll be honest: at the moment, I’d prefer going with the cheap part (as long as it would solve my problem) and maybe in one year or next revision, replace them with NGK ones. Would this be a viable solution?
[/quote]
I would ask the seller if they are the right wires for your car.

Clicking the NGK link, I see you must re-look up the parts on that page because it doesn’t show the results 🙁
I looked your car up as 1997 Mitsubishi Lancer VI (CK P_A)

The 9 euro set could work if they are 7mm wires but the wires will be too long.
NGK makes 2 DIFFERENT 4 wire sets.
One has wires that are 69cm, 55cm,53cm and 41cm .
The second has 66cm,52cm,52cm and 36cm.
The NGK 5 wire set has 84cm, 66cm,64cm,56cm wires plus an 18cm coil wire.

If your distributor cap has only 4 wires coming from it, then you will be able to tell which wire set you need by either measuring the shortest wire or seeing if 2 of the wires are exactly the same length.
Only the second 4 wire set has 2 identical length wires.

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hey!

I bit the bullet and bought a set a little bit cheaper from JapanParts. I know NGK were higher quality but at the moment all I want is to be 100% sure the problem is solved without spending too much money. Although the cables have problems, for some reason I suspect some other part in the ignition system might have problems too. I tried making a simple test: insulating the existing cables with insulating tape and see if the car had any problems on LPG. It still has but they don’t manifest as much. I don’t think the cables are proper insulated and I hoping that I get better results with the newer ones (they arrive tomorrow, I think).

I will also need to make “cable ties” to hold the cables in place because the existing holder is broken and the cables swing around a bit.

Is there any way I can clean the outside part of the spark plug well? I think it has some oil residue and I was wondering if that can be adding somehow to the problem.

Thanks!

[Mike]

I don’t have a picture of your engine so I’m guessing that the spark plugs go down into holes in the top of the rocker arm cover.
Wire ends sitting in pools of oil often short out to the engine, instead of firing the spark plugs–and oil leaking onto an engine is always a fire risk.
The solution to the spark plug well oil leak is to replace the gaskets.
There are gaskets around the perimeter of the rocker arm cover and flat, round gaskets for each spark plug .
If the spark plugs go in to the engine on the side, unless the area is soaked, it generally doesn’t happen.
The solution is to replace the leaking rocker arm cover gaskets (aka valve cover gaskets) in both cases.
You can use an engine degreaser to clean up the oil after the gaskets are replaced.
Cleaning out the oil in the wells is , at best, only a temporary help when the gaskets are only going to continue leaking oil. At worst, cleaning the thick residue may allow the oil to leak into the wells even faster.
You can probably get a universal wire separator and, if using cable ties, you can cut lengths of vacuum tubing to fit onto the wires to insulate and prevent chafing.

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hi!

This is getting annoying. The cables arrived today and I installed them. They are just a little bit longer but just a few centimeters. I measured the resistance of the old cables versus the new ones and the new ones have a much lower resistance value.

After installing I cable-tied them and used tubing to protect the outside of the new cables. So far, so good. The problem is that when testing, the problem persists (I would say, exactly the same).

I removed the two sparkplugs from the area that I thing the problem was (cylinders 2 and 3) to see if they were cracked. They were not.

Also, my engine is not leaking oil (from the valve cover). I just wanted to clean evertthing as best as I could but upon further inspection, its clean enough and it doesn’t seem to have oil residue in the wells.

Also, I insulated the cables that enter the distributor with electrical tape (just to be sure).

So, what could I do at this point? This is getting crazy. The spark plugs are new, distributor cap is new, spark plug cables are new…

Thank you very much!

[Mike]

Testing things without access to many tools is difficult, at best .
A 20 year old car is bound to have multiple problems and assuming that a previous owner kept the car fully maintained is usually wrong..
The new wires with lower resistance are obviously going to function better,.
An oxygen sensor that had a piece of catalyst heat welded to it is most likely to be malfunctioning.
Assuming the car has a mass air flow sensor, it would be wise to clean it, as an underreporting air flow sensor will cause fuel delivery problems.
This link may or may not show the same type your car has:
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/mitsubishi/3.0L/maf-sensor-tests-1
Did you replace the fuel filter?
Have you measured fuel pressure?
Are you sure the spark plugs are the right ones and are properly gapped?
How about the air filter?

I would again urge you to use a vacuum gauge to get an idea of what is going on inside the engine.
A simple vacuum gauge can tell you many things.
Read here:
http://www.gregsengine.com/using-a-vacuum-gauge.html

You never did do a test to confirm the absence of an exhaust system blockage.
Just because a pipe looks OK on the outside, does not mean it has not collapsed inside.

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hi!

I am sitting in the car at the moment.

So far, I have done the following:

I searched for MAF but I think this car hasnt got one. I found however one sensor in the intake that I believe it is a temperature sensor. It had some carbon deposit so I cleaned it and installed it again. Then I checked the whole intake to see if there was something in it. There wasn’t. The air filter seems to be almost new and I also cleaned with contact cleaner the TPS.

Then I removed all the sparkplugs and re-gapped them. They come pre-gapped (1.1mm) but I remember when installing them that they seemed to be a little bit tight to put a feeler gauge of that size. So, I managed to get all of them to fit that. After that I cleaned all the cylinder wells and re-installed everything. When I went to test it, the problem is much, much worse. When pressing to WOT, the car struggles immediately. Here’s a video showing it:

I guess I made the spark plug gaps too large. I was searching in the internet for the correct gap and the value is between 1.0mm and 1.1mm. I need to regap them again but should I do it to a smaller value than 1.0mm?

After regapping them, I will use the vacuum gauge to check all the things mentioned on the link your sent me.

A few more information: I haven’t replaced the fuel filter nor have I checked the fuel pressure (I don’t have the tool to do that). I still haven’t replaced the O2 sensor because I think if it was malfunctioning, It would trigger a CEL.
I haven’t done a test to confirm exhaust blockage because when I went to weld the new cat in place, the whole pipe had to be replaced because it wasn’t any good. Also, I have already done a test where I remove the O2 sensor to see if there was any blockage (if there was, the air would leave through the opening) and the problem remained the same.

Thank you very much! 🙂

EDIT: I have just watched the video and saw the CEL that appeared for a brief instant. I am guessing this is because of the regapping I did because that was not happening before.

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hi,

The car has what I think is a new problem. I removed the sparkplugs to regap them and saw that they had a bit of carbon fouling. Note that before I increase the gap, they were looking perfect (so, 30 minutes earlier they were perfect). I am guessing this is because of the behaviour you can see in the previous video. So, I regapped themso that the 1mm feeler could fit in there. Then, I went to a test drive and the CEL was having the same behaviour it had in the video (lighting up for an instant). I think this had something to do with the fouling and that driving would clean the deposits. Other than that, the car seemed to be normal (with the problem but other than that, normal).

I return home to perform the vacuum readings and I have a new erratic behaviour: the vacuum is normal on idle: 21 inches, steady. When I try to rev up to 3000 rpms slowly the car goes up but around 2100 rpms the car “cuts” and goes down, then goes up and cuts again, etc. You can see in the video below:

Any ideas? I really don’t know what else to do :/

[Billy]

Re the CEL – any codes, pending or active?

Re the sensor, how did you clean it? Did you use a proper intake sensor cleaner such as MAF sensor cleaner? Can you post a pic so we know what sensor we’re talking about?

Do you have a scanner with live data yet?

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hey,

I don’t have a scanner able to read the codes nor live data. I’ve tried with 3 different ones: ELM327, Vgate one and Delco one. The Delco is a good scanner tool but it is not able to connect to the car. I’ve read somewhere that this car is not 100% OBD2 compliant. All the scanners simply can’t connect to the ECU.

I am not around the car right now but the sensor has this aspect: http://www.mlabo.com/image/sensor/Air_Temp_Sensor1_500.jpg

That black part is sealed. I cleaned it with an intake spray cleaner that I have and with a rag. I have one picture of the location of this sensor and another one, while it was still dirty:

Engine air temperature sensor

Thanks once again 🙂

[Author]

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