[SOLVED] Mitsubishi Lancer 1.3 GLX – Several problems

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hello everyone,

We bought a new car just last week. When we went to see it and get it I inspected the car as best as I could and couldn’t find any major problems: a few aesthetic ones and the biggest thing I could find were a few tiny holes (maybe 4 or 5) in the exhaust pipe, a bit after the catalytic converter. No big deal I thought because a few weld dots and the problem would be solved. The car is from 1997 and runs on Gas and LPG. It has just under 100k miles (159k Km) which we thought to be good.

We made the trip home without any problems: the car ran good on gas and on LPG and had no performance issues.

One day after we got it home a few problems started appearing. I will explain them all because they seem to jump around from one thing to the other.
On the first day in our home, the car had problems starting. We had to crank it for a while and then it would stall more or less on its own. If we accelerated (but not the whole foot down to fast) it could rev up. This problem appeared on both gas and LPG. My father, the owner of the car, called the previous owner who told him that this is because the spark plugs installed are special for LPG and that this is a normal behaviour until the car warmed up. I am pretty sure that is not the case but I might be wrong. Other than that, the holes on the exhaust remained the same and the car drove more or less ok if we pressed hard enough on the pedal. In other words, the car seemed to be loosing power on both LPG and Gas.

One day later I made the mistake of doing a “free performance upgrade” 😛 I tightened the cable on the throttle because it had some slack. This led to the car having another weird behavior: on gas, if I put my foot down the car would rev up normally. On LPG, if I did the same the car would stall. However, if I pressed the accelerator pedal slowly enought (instead of 1-100% in less than on second), it would rev up just fine. I undid the “performance upgrade” and this problem disappeared.

Yesterday I decided to put some aluminium tape on the exhaust to reduce the noise just until the weekend when I’ll have more time to properly weld it. This proved to work ok at the moment.

This morning a few other problems arouse: the car had problems starting (although it was cold out, the car was inside where there were around 59ºF (15ºC) and outside there were around 40ºF (5ºC). When it started it had no power neither or gas nor LPG and it made a lot of smoke. A few moments later the aluminium foil broke and the car still had a very rough idle. The smoke then started disappearing but 3 minutes later I looked under the car and saw both the catalytic converter and another part of the exhaust, I think that it is only tube glowing red hot. While this was happening, I verified that smoke was coming of the exhaust with what I think is enough force. The car, even with the foot down, wouldn’t rev up very much in neither LPG or Gas. After seeing this, we shut the car down and I put it in the garage again (maybe one hour later). It seemed to have a bit more power again.

After lifting the car up I removed what remained of the aluminium foil tape and checked the holes that increased in size (quite a bit). The exhaust doesn’t seem to have a lot of corrosion (in fact, I’d say that it is quite alright) which I find odd.

So this is everything that happened until now. But I noticed another thing: it might be just my impression but I think that the car, on Gas, makes a very smelly smoke from the exhaust. What I mean by smelly is that it seems to smell a lot of gas.

Yesterday I tested the spark plugs cable. I couldn’t remove the spark plugs because for some reason, I don’t have a socket that fits over them (tried every size). I measured the resistance and 3 of them had what I thought to be over the limit (8,5k, +/-) and one of them under the limit (5k +/-). I also tried another thing: with the motor running, I disconnected each spark plug, one by one. In all of them I noticed the roughening of the motor sound but in one of the cylinders it toke a lot longer to notice when compared to the other ones (instant versus a few seconds later).

Upon searching online for reasons for this problem (that seems to jump from one thing to another) the most common solutions are:
For the rough idle/loss of power/etc: bad sparkplugs/sparkplug wires/distributor, LPG tuned incorrectly, valves needing tuning, bad injector or bad mixture.
For the red hot catalytic converter: clogged pipe somewhere or valves needing tuning.

I tried to disassemble the exhaust but there is one screw that is set on not coming of. From that I could see it seemed to be not clogged. I removed the muffler and a lot of corroded metal came flying out when I put the car working but the other problems remained the same. ´

Any ideas on how to solve this whole thing? Thank you very much in advance! 🙂

Topic

[Tiago Ferreira]

[quote=”relative4″ post=184900]If just one cylinder doesn’t have good spark, you’re looking at plug, wire, cap. Sounds like you already swapped all that. As you observed, this looks like a timing issue. If your mechanic friend noticed an improvement when adjusting timing, why didn’t he just set the timing?[/quote]

I still haven’t swapped the wires but that was just one question.

He did: we set the distributor in a position that the car does not show the problems I talked about (we advanced it a lot) and test drove the car: it was making the cricket sound (dizzy too advanced) but all the other problems were gone. Then he moved the distributor back maybe just 1 millimeter and we repeated the test drive. When the car stops making the cricket sound, the problems I talked about come back again (blow out in the exhaust, etc). Or this is not a good way to set the timing?

[Billy]

That technique can often be effective if you know what to look for, but given the severity of your problems, you need to be SURE the timing is right so you can then finish troubleshooting.

Given these severe symptoms with no happy middle ground, it does sound like timing is not the only problem.

Are you 100% sure you don’t have a couple wires swapped? Happens to everyone at some point. I don’t think that’s your problem, but.

I really want to hear the results of using the inline spark tester. It really sounds like one cylinder just isn’t firing.

While you’re waiting for that spark tester, can you repeat the load balance test?

[Tiago Ferreira]

Good afternoon.

I have answers for our questions:

I checked the cabling and all the cables are in the correspondant places.
I used a in-line spark tester with a light and all the cylinders have consistent sparks, in several rpms and full-throttle instantaneous.
Also, I did another balance test and all the results seem normal. I have performed the balance test on idle and full throttle instantaneous.
The timing was ser and the problem persists.

The problem is the car, somewhere around 1500-2000rpm has little strength and almost chokes. Also, if I press the throttle fully instantaneous (0-100%), the car struggles a bit but then manages to get RPM’s to proper value. Ill record a video so that I can tell you exactly whats happening.

Also, I checked for vacuum on the intake and I got around 20-21 inches of mercury in idle.

Ill post a link to the video as soon as I upload it.

Thank you!

[Billy]

Sounds like you’re doing great work over there, and that vacuum sounds good.
The stumbling when you go from idle straight to WOT is typically a fuel problem. Could be your fuel pressure is low or you have one or more dirty or worn injectors. I forget, have you done a fuel system cleaner or checked your fuel pressure?

[Tiago Ferreira]

Good afternoon,

Well, it must be because I said I was going to record a video, part of the problem disappeared: now, when jumping from idle to WOT (thanks for the name), the car doesn’t choke. It does however something that I think it can lead us to the problem: it stops revving up +/- at 5000 rpm. If I accelerate gradually, it goes higher than that without a problem.

Here’s the video showing that:

Also, I haven’t done a fuel system cleaner nor checked my fuel pressure. Ill do the later now (I have a fuel pump tester (the vacuum gauge), I guess thats the tool needed, right?

I think there is still a problem because when I put the car on LPG it makes explosions on the exhaust even when accelerating slowly. I won’t tune the LPG (I need to go to a specialized house for that) but what has been told me so far is that since LPG is more “sensible” than gas, it shows problems earlier and this means that the car has a ignition problem. I’ll try to contact one of those houses now to confirm this.

Thank you 🙂

EDIT:

I called the LPG workshop and it confirms that the explosions on the exhaust are not normal and that it means an ignition problem (usually).

[Billy]

I hate to advocate parts swapping, but the best I can offer at this point is try new wires, then distributor.
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I such as Bonnieman will have better input.

[Billy]

Does your distributor have vacuum advance?

[Billy]

The more I think about this one, the more I think it’s the dizzy. Whatever type of advance mechanism it has, it sounds like it’s malfunctioning in part of the range. Can you use the timing light to check what the dizzy is doing at low, middle, and high revs?

[Mike]

Forgive me if I’m asking an already answered question:
Did you install the replacement catalytic converter?

A catalytic converter whose catalyst is in pieces can intermittently block the flow of exhaust, which will starve the engine of power.
Most likely a dislodged chunk of catalyst allows the exhaust to flow when you slowly raise the RPM but a sudden increase in exhaust pressure causes the chunk to move , blocking the flow of exhaust and causing the loss of power.

If you did replace the converter, it is possible that a chunk of catalyst is stuck somewhere farther down in the exhaust system and blocks it only when you quickly raise the RPM.

You can test it without a gauge–but it will be very noisy.
You will have to either loosen the exhaust enough to make an exhaust leak at the manifold or remove the oxygen sensor and do the same fast raising of the RPM to 5000.
If the problem disappears—you have your answer–it is a restricted exhaust.

Vacuum gauge test:
Connect a vacuum gauge to the engine, quickly raise the RPM to 2500 and hold there.
Watch the vacuum gauge and see if vacuum starts dropping.
That will confirm that there is a blockage.
Read here: http://freeasestudyguides.com/catalytic-converter-clogged-vacuum-test-a8.html

A vacuum gauge can check vacuum on all cars but only be used to check fuel pressure on cars with a mechanical fuel pump.
Fuel pressures with electric fuel pumps are too high for a vacuum gauge.
You need a fuel pressure test gauge for testing electric fuel pumps.

An engine that runs too rich can damage the catalyst.
Engines will run rich/allow unburned fuel into the exhaust for any of the following reasons:
Timing problems
Bad oxygen sensor
Bad MAF sensor
Defective fuel pressure regulator causing too high fuel pressure or leaking internally
Faulty engine coolant temperature sensor
Leaking injector
Misfiring

If you are using the original distributor rotor, get a replacement and see if that solves the problem.
Looking for burned through places on a black rotor is difficult.
The rotor can be grounding to the distributor shaft instead of to the wires.

[Tiago Ferreira]

Good afternoon and thank you for all your answers.

In the night of saturday I had to drive the car at night: it was colder and maybe slightly more air humidity. The car had hiccups if I was around 1200-1800 rpm and even if I only slightly pressed the pedal a bit. They would disappear fast after accelerating but when I put the foot a bit on the gas, they were there. I don’t know if this is any good information.

I tried looking for a port to test the fuel pressure but haven’t managed to find one that I would be sure it would work.

Im not sure if the dizzy has vacuum advance but I think it doesn’t have because there no other thing connected to it other than electrical wires for the sparkplugs and another connector for several other wires.

I will check the exhaust for a leak and post the results here. After that I’ll buy a new rotor for the dizzy. In the meanwhile I am trying to get my hands on a working distributor at a low price so that I can test it first and if it solves the problem, replace the whole thing.

Thank you once again for your great insight 🙂

EDIT: Yes, I already installed the new catalytic converter. Sorry if I hadn’t answered that yet 🙂

[Billy]

I’d just like touch on a couple of Bonnieman’s great points.
First, fragments from the old cat blocking up the exhaust downstream. Can you inspect the inside of the muffler? If not, can you try driving without it?
Second, when you first broke down, you mentioned that pieces of the old cat were welded to the O2 sensor. Did you replace the O2 sensor? I think the chances of it working properly after that ordeal are pretty slim. I don’t suppose you’ve gotten to a point where you have access to a scanner with live data? With a Bluetooth adapter and the Torque app, you could get really useful info.

[Mike]

In addition to relative4’s good advice, I suggest a simple test.

Fill a spray bottle with water and, in a dark place with the engine idling, spray a mist onto the spark plug wires and look carefully for sparks going from the wires to places they should not go–like spark to any metal parts or to a nearby wires.

The bad news for checking fuel pressure on your car is that it probably requires you to actually disconnect the fuel supply line and install a special adapter on the line.

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hi!

I have to thank you both because I think we might be onto something here.

I’ll answer everything and explain:

I had to put the car in the garage this morning. The weather is dry and mildly warm. I tested accelerating fast and slowly and the car wouldn’t choke. All it did was that thing around 5000rpm that I showed on the video.

I put it there and removed the O2 sensor (I haven’t replaced it because they are a bit expensive and the car doesn’t show any check engine light – I think that if it was broken, it would show but I’m not sure). Started the car again, accelerated fast, slow and the behavior remained the same (no chocking, 5000rpm “limit”, etc). Then I was going to try and drive the car without the O2 sensor in the exhaust but I remembered to perform the test that bonnieman suggested: the spray bottle test.

I haven’t managed to see any spark but the car now almost dies when I accelerate even if it’s only a little bit. I think that something might be shorting out somewhere around the engine! At the moment I have the car on the sun drying everything so that I can repeat the test in a bit and see if I have the same behavior. I will also snap some pictures to show you the engine compartment to see if is there anything that I might be not seeing.

So, I don’t believe that the exhaust has any clogging: when I went to the exhaust shop to repair (I don’t think that I told you this yet), they had to replace most of the pipping and checked everything for leaks, etc. In fact, I had to put a new “muffler”: it’s not the one on the back of the car but one on the middle of the car.

As for OBD2 scanners: the car hasn’t been lighting up any CEL. Also, I managed to get my hands on two different reasonable scanners: one VGate VS600 and a Delco one from the mechanic friend and neither have been able to pull any codes or get any useful data. I had read on the internet that this car doesn’t have a good relationship with OBD2 scanners…

Also, I removed the distributor cap to show you the rotor. I cleaned it a while ago and the problem remains. It also seems to be ok: http://imgur.com/a/BEwHG

Finally, I haven’t performed the fuel pressure test because I don’t have the appropriate tools and money is short to keep investing at the moment.

So, I will wait for the engine compartment to be fully dry. I will also put the O2 sensor on back again. After that, I will repeat the test again: if the problem persists, Ill cover parts of the engine and repeat once again to try to find at least a specific area for the problem. Is this a good method or is there a better one?

Thanks!

UPDATE:

So I put the O2 sensor back in and tried going by areas when moisting. Again, I did not see any spark. However, the problem seems to come from the spark plug wells area. I think it one of the two middle ones (cyl 2 and 3). Any suggestion so that I can pin-nail the exact cause?

[Billy]

If the plug wires have lengths that you can swap, that might help. Otherwise, I think it’s maybe time to replace those wires.

[Tiago Ferreira]

I repeated the test again and the results remained the same. Then I swaped 2 wires (the one from cyl4 > cyl 3 and vice-versa). Ofcourse I changed their position on the distributor. The results seemed to remain more or less the same.

Is there anything I can do to be 100% sure or close that this will solve my problem? Is it possible that the whole problem with the dizzy are in fact the cables? I am asking because they are quite expensive…

[Author]

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