[SOLVED] Mitsubishi Lancer 1.3 GLX – Several problems

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hello everyone,

We bought a new car just last week. When we went to see it and get it I inspected the car as best as I could and couldn’t find any major problems: a few aesthetic ones and the biggest thing I could find were a few tiny holes (maybe 4 or 5) in the exhaust pipe, a bit after the catalytic converter. No big deal I thought because a few weld dots and the problem would be solved. The car is from 1997 and runs on Gas and LPG. It has just under 100k miles (159k Km) which we thought to be good.

We made the trip home without any problems: the car ran good on gas and on LPG and had no performance issues.

One day after we got it home a few problems started appearing. I will explain them all because they seem to jump around from one thing to the other.
On the first day in our home, the car had problems starting. We had to crank it for a while and then it would stall more or less on its own. If we accelerated (but not the whole foot down to fast) it could rev up. This problem appeared on both gas and LPG. My father, the owner of the car, called the previous owner who told him that this is because the spark plugs installed are special for LPG and that this is a normal behaviour until the car warmed up. I am pretty sure that is not the case but I might be wrong. Other than that, the holes on the exhaust remained the same and the car drove more or less ok if we pressed hard enough on the pedal. In other words, the car seemed to be loosing power on both LPG and Gas.

One day later I made the mistake of doing a “free performance upgrade” 😛 I tightened the cable on the throttle because it had some slack. This led to the car having another weird behavior: on gas, if I put my foot down the car would rev up normally. On LPG, if I did the same the car would stall. However, if I pressed the accelerator pedal slowly enought (instead of 1-100% in less than on second), it would rev up just fine. I undid the “performance upgrade” and this problem disappeared.

Yesterday I decided to put some aluminium tape on the exhaust to reduce the noise just until the weekend when I’ll have more time to properly weld it. This proved to work ok at the moment.

This morning a few other problems arouse: the car had problems starting (although it was cold out, the car was inside where there were around 59ºF (15ºC) and outside there were around 40ºF (5ºC). When it started it had no power neither or gas nor LPG and it made a lot of smoke. A few moments later the aluminium foil broke and the car still had a very rough idle. The smoke then started disappearing but 3 minutes later I looked under the car and saw both the catalytic converter and another part of the exhaust, I think that it is only tube glowing red hot. While this was happening, I verified that smoke was coming of the exhaust with what I think is enough force. The car, even with the foot down, wouldn’t rev up very much in neither LPG or Gas. After seeing this, we shut the car down and I put it in the garage again (maybe one hour later). It seemed to have a bit more power again.

After lifting the car up I removed what remained of the aluminium foil tape and checked the holes that increased in size (quite a bit). The exhaust doesn’t seem to have a lot of corrosion (in fact, I’d say that it is quite alright) which I find odd.

So this is everything that happened until now. But I noticed another thing: it might be just my impression but I think that the car, on Gas, makes a very smelly smoke from the exhaust. What I mean by smelly is that it seems to smell a lot of gas.

Yesterday I tested the spark plugs cable. I couldn’t remove the spark plugs because for some reason, I don’t have a socket that fits over them (tried every size). I measured the resistance and 3 of them had what I thought to be over the limit (8,5k, +/-) and one of them under the limit (5k +/-). I also tried another thing: with the motor running, I disconnected each spark plug, one by one. In all of them I noticed the roughening of the motor sound but in one of the cylinders it toke a lot longer to notice when compared to the other ones (instant versus a few seconds later).

Upon searching online for reasons for this problem (that seems to jump from one thing to another) the most common solutions are:
For the rough idle/loss of power/etc: bad sparkplugs/sparkplug wires/distributor, LPG tuned incorrectly, valves needing tuning, bad injector or bad mixture.
For the red hot catalytic converter: clogged pipe somewhere or valves needing tuning.

I tried to disassemble the exhaust but there is one screw that is set on not coming of. From that I could see it seemed to be not clogged. I removed the muffler and a lot of corroded metal came flying out when I put the car working but the other problems remained the same. ´

Any ideas on how to solve this whole thing? Thank you very much in advance! 🙂

Topic

[Billy]

Considering further, it would be unwise to assume the valves were the only problem. Those spark plugs had quite a bit of carbon fouling, which is consistent with running rich, which of course is what causes cats to overheat. So,
1. Definitely check the cat temperature along with before-cat and after-cat temps. If they’re hotter than spec, don’t drive it till the root cause is fixed.
2. Get a real scan tool. The Launch CRP123 is an amazingly full-featured device for amazing prices on eBay, with good tech support and frequent software updates. I LOVE mine. Once you have that, you can monitor fuel trims and O2 sensor readings to find out what’s really going on with your fuel mixture.
3. If you are running rich, common causes are a dirty air filter and dirty leaking injectors. The air filter is obviously easy to check. Injector leakage is not hard either. Hook up a fuel pressure tester, run the car, and turn it off. If the pressure drops, at least one injector is leaking. Dirty injectors can be cleaned with an injector cleaning kit.

By the way, the reason #1’s compression dropped is that now you have proper compression in the other 3 cylinders, the starter has to work harder to turn the engine and cannot compress #1 so easily.

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hello!

I thought I’d come here and give an update. I’ve been a bit busier studying for an exam but now that is out of the way.

So, on Tuesday I adjusted all the valves and tested the car on the same day and on Wednesday. The car ran great, like a clock and it had a reasonable amount of force. No issues there. I also emptied the old cat so as not to clog the pipe again (while I am not 100% sure it is 100% fixed I am avoiding putting the new one). I also put aluminium tape on the exhaust (the parts before the muffler) to decrease the noise. On Thursday I had an appointment on a LPG Specialist to check that part of the equation. Maybe 200 meters from my house, the car lost a lot of strength and it started blow what I think was gas on the exhaust.

I noticed the following: if I put my foot 100% down on the accelerator, the car would almost choke and blow gas on the exhaust (almost like a shot sound, an explosion). However, If I kept the car above 2000rpm and did a gradual acceleration without much pressure on the accelerator, the car ran normal. So I went to the specialist… that told me he couldn’t do anything while the exhaust was not fixed. On my way home I passed by an acquaintance mechanic so that he could give me maybe an hint of what was happening. While there, we checked for compression again (no problems there, all cylinders are within 2PSI of each other and are around 202PSI). The sparkplugs now look absolutely normal, without any carbon buildup. Then he told me to remove the distributor cap to see if it was cracked. It wasn’t. However, the distributor rotor was showing signs of wear but nothing out of the ordinary. He told me we should look for a known good distributor to test and see if the problem could solve itself. However, we did another thing: we unbolted the distributor a bit and we rotated it do advance a bit. It solved the problem but the car makes a bit of a cricket sound (he told me even before we tested the car that that was going to happen and was a signal of a too advanced distributor). On my way home I kept stopping to back it and see If I could find a spot where the car doesn’t make that cricket sound nor the gas explosions from the exhaust. That was not possible because that point doesn’t seem to exist.

So we started looking for a good distributor to try and maybe buy but all we could find were prices a bit to steep (125€) and without 100% sure (from my part) that the problem isn’t going to be solved, I’d like to avoid spending that money.

We also tried his scan tool that couldn’t connect to the car. It was a reasonable one, from Delphi (DS150E). I’ve read on the internet that scan tools that work for this car are not easy to find. I will however consider your suggestion and when I’m better financially, I will invest in a proper scan tool. Thank you for your suggestion.

Finally, I hand’t read your post till just a few minutes ago. Just by chance, I had already checked the air filter maybe a week ago and it was semi-new and clean. With all this information should I try to find a way to test injectors or by the description, the problem really is the distributor?

Thank you for your great insight!

[Billy]

Is there rotational play in the distributor? If so, the shaft is worn and it needs replacing. Get a timing light and set the timing properly. Use an ohmmeter to make sure both sides of the ignition coil are in spec. Then use a spark tester to ensure you have steady spark on all cylinders. If that checks out, test for leaking injectors.

Launch CRP123s are like $10 US from China on eBay. Don’t know if they’re so cheap where you are, but you can email their tech support in advance re compatibility. A good scanner is critical to diagnosing this properly.

Were those dizzy prices new or local junkyard or eBay?

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hey!

The prices I talked about are from local junkyards. On eBay they are more expensive.

As for the Launch CRP123 they are around 100$ on eBay. Not very expensive but it is money that I don’t have at the moment to spend on it.

I removed the distributor and I think I am going to buy a new cap and rotor. The cap seems worn out (I haven’t got photos but it is like this one: http://tech.mirage-performance.com/images/4g4g93distributorcaprotor07.jpg ).

As for the rotor, I am not 100% sure as it is ok or not. I’ve taken some photos so that you can see. It seems that it is painted black and I find that odd. Also, in the part that fits over the rotor, there seems to be residual grease(?) or maybe wax(?).

Distributor rotor worn out(?)

There isn’t play on the distributor.

I don’t have a timing light nor a spark tester. Should I replace the distributor cap and see if that solves the problem and if not, buy those tools and do it or not? Also, should I replace the rotor? The cap is around 20€ and the rotor 15€. Thank you very much!

[Billy]

I’ve never seen a rotor like that, but I don’t see any obvious signs of wear. Before replacing anything, use a spark tester to verify steady spark on all cylinders.

Spark testers and timing lights are very cheap. Or can be borrowed.

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hey,

I must admit I did not follow your advice. I haven’t yet gotten hands on a spark tester nor in a timing light. However, upon closer inspection of the distributor cap, it was a bit worn out and I bought a new one (already installed). I also cleaned the rotor and it is installed. Today I went to an exhaust repair shop to repair the pipe and exhaust.

The status of the situation so far is:

The car rides more or less ok. I hear a bit of noise (like crickets) coming from the motor that, like it has been told me, it is because the distributor is too advanced. Sometimes the car almost chokes (usually around 1600-1800 rpm). Bellow that, even if have the gas fully depressed and am going up a hill, whatever gear I am on, the car rides just fine. Above that, the same. In that range, the car seems to “hesitate” a bit like if for a brief moment the gas ran out and the motor hadn’t any. Sometimes that happens with the pedal fully depressed and others with just a bit (maybe 20%).

This seems to be an ignition problem: valves are tuned fine, spark plugs are new, the distributor rotor is clean and the cap is new. All I think it is missing is the whole distributor and the spark plug wires.

I intend to go to a place where I think I can use a spark tester and a timing light. Is there anything else I should do or can test in the meantime?

Thank you very much.

[Billy]

Do you still have a check engine light? If so, you need to pull those codes.

I REALLY don’t recommend driving your new cat around with that ignition problem. Can, and probably will, get real expensive, real fast.

I still don’t know what country you’re in, but here’s what I know about buying this essential diagnostic equipment on eBay:
Timing light: $18 US
Spark tester: $5 US
Autel (semi name brand) OBD2 code reader: $12 US

How much did that cat cost?

[Tiago Ferreira]

Good morning,

I have bought a spark tester that will arrive within this week. The timing light I haven’t manage to find one with the price you’ve said. Could you link it to me, please?

I don’t have a check engine light anymore because that light only turned on when running on LPG and it is normal: the LPG system installed bypasses a few sensors on the car (I think, it doesn’t have a feedback-response mode) and so the light turns on. When running on gas (unleaded 95 or 98 octanes) the car doesn’t light up the check engine light so all is good there.

[Billy]

What country are you in?

[Tiago Ferreira]

Hello,

I am in Portugal

[Billy]

I of course don’t know the best ways to shop online over there, but this should get you started:

https://www.amazon.es/Pistola-Estroboscopica-Gasolina-Lampara-Encendido/dp/B012NCCVLS/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1488734507&sr=1-3&keywords=lampara+de+tiempo

[Tiago Ferreira]

Thanks for the link. I’ll try to get one of those that ships to Portugal. In the meanwhile, while I wait for that to arrive, are there any measures I can do to the distributor?

I got my hands on an electrical system manual ( http://indy.pp.ru/GDI/Docs/!Motor%20Repair/E/Engine_electrical/PWEE9025-ABCDEF_ENGINE_ELECTRICAL_WORKSHOP_MANUAL/PWEE9025-ABCDE_ENGINE_ELECTRICAL_IGNITION_SYSTEM_16C.pdf ) but it doesn’t seem to have my specific type of distributor.

[Billy]

So far I haven’t heard anything to make me think there’s anything wrong with the dizzy. Still just need to make sure you’re getting spark on all cylinders, then adjust it to the right timing.

[Tiago Ferreira]

I will do both things when the spark tester and timing light arrive.

What made me (and the mechanic friend I talked about) talk about the distributor being the problem is the fact that the problem with the ignition disappears when the distributor is advanced and reappears when we set it back. Also, being a ignition problem, all the components were changed appart from the distributor (the coil itself) and the spark plug wires.

Will the spark tester and timing light help diagnose the problem if this is really the problem? I will do the tests but what can we say is the problem if, for instance, I don’t get a consistent spark in one of the cylinders?

thank you!

[Billy]

If just one cylinder doesn’t have good spark, you’re looking at plug, wire, cap. Sounds like you already swapped all that. As you observed, this looks like a timing issue. If your mechanic friend noticed an improvement when adjusting timing, why didn’t he just set the timing?

[Author]

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