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Hi all, I’ve got a no crank/no start issue with our ’95 Odyssey. It has approx 140k kms on an F22B1 engine and 349k kms on the body/transmission (including starter). For the last couple of weeks it had been getting progressively harder to start; normally it takes a short “burst” in the start position on the ignition switch but lately we’ve been having to hold the switch down a little longer. This weekend it simply refused to start with no noises at all.
I was initially able to get the van to start by tapping the starter with a hammer and using a jumper battery but the improvement didn’t stay.
A couple of things I’ve tried:
– replaced battery; I didn’t have a load tester so I hooked up a volt meter to the battery and watched as went to start position. The voltage dropped to 5V
– cleaned up and the battery cables
-used Eric’s tip of tapping the starter with a hammer a number of times but other than the first couple of tries with this there’s been no further improvement.
– pulled the solenoid terminal wire and checked for voltage in the start position- there was 12.11 Volts (battery voltage was 12.56).
– bypassed the ignition circuit as in the Helm’s manual by putting battery voltage directly to the solenoid terminal and there was no reaction at all from the starter.To me all of that points to the starter itself as the issue but I thought I’d double check on here before heading to the parts store/rebuilder.
Thanks all!
Greg
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Do you hear the solenoid on the starter clicking when you turn the key? I am guessing that has the Nippon Denso starter in it. They frequently have problems with the contacts going bad in the solenoid. Usually, when that happens, the solenoid will click one time when you turn the key, but the starter won’t run. When it first starts failing, it will click, and if you hold the key for a few seconds, the starter will maybe start going, or if you turn the key a few times, the 2nd or 3rd time it will crank over.
If that is indeed your problem it is easy to tell. There are 3 small bolts (maybe 6 or 8 mm heads) that hold the cover on the solenoid. Take that cover off and look at the contacts. It will be obvious if they are worn. The good news, if that is the problem, you can buy new contacts from Ebay, or Amazon for well under $20. They are pretty easy to put in, sometimes even with the stater still in the vehicle (this was the case with my mother’s Caravan which uses the same starter), and you can likely count on many more years of service from the starter after replacing the contacts. The one in my Accord went over 4 more years after I replaced the contacts.
F22 sounds like an Accord engine. Before you just replace it with a cheap one from the parts store, see if you can replace the brushes. I took appart a 91 Accord starter. The workmanship was a thing of beauty inside. Don’t think you could buy a new one, so well built. The only thing wrong was the brushes where worn. Brushs will wear down in any electric motor. (except brushless motors).
It’s fried, replace it. Don’t waste your time rebuilding this or that, just replace it and be done with it.
Why not just take it to the parts store and have them test it?
Even if you do not purchase it from most parts houses, they will still test it for you free of charge. Then you have the option of ordering a replacement a lot cheaper (normally we use RockAuto for parts here).
Yes it does seem like the starter is fried. But that’s no excuse for not being sure and having it tested.
S-
As I said in my earlier post, depending on the exact orientation of the starter in the car, it may well be possible to not only inspect those contacts, but to actually replace them without even removing the starter from the engine.
It is a quick, easy job, cost is under $20, and in my experience, you can expect at least a few more years out of the starter after changing the contacts, I don’t see any reason not to go this route. I’ve done the job two times now. Once on my Accord with about 170k miles on it, the starter finally went at 256k miles over 4 years later, and even then, had I wanted to mess about with it, all it needed was a new bendix. The actual motor was still working fine.
The second time I did the job was on my mothers Dodge Caravan, that one I was able to leave the starter in the van while I changed the contacts, and it has been working fine for about 5 months now since replacing them. I would definitely go ahead and at least check that out.
The Denso starters are very well made, robust units. Generally, the solenoid contacts are the first thing to fail, and they fail long before anything else goes wrong with the starter.
thanks for the replies!
It sounds like there are a couple of good rebuilders here in town so I’m going to pay them a visit.
The manual says it’s a Mitsuba so I don’t know if it would have the contacts as mentioned. I’m kind of in a position where I need to just get the van back on the road so trying to service the starter myself will have to wait for another time. I might keep the old one and rebuild that so I’ll have a spare.
Thanks again.
If you have a good rebuilder I’d go that route. I have one here and every time I take a failed part to them it never fails again. The only problem for you could be the turnaround time.
I hate reman starters with passion.
It does sound like a starter issue. Not a bad idea to have it checked out by a rebuilder. Sometimes starters go bad for other reasons besides brushes. Also, be sure your cables are good and your connections are clean and tight. Lastly, don’t forget about the ignition switch. Honda’s of that vintage often had issues with ignition switches that could cause no starts. More info here.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-no-start-problems
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
updates…I went to one of the rebuilders here who claimed to have a starter on the shelf that would fit but when I gave it a good looking-over I found that the main housing is a little smaller than the old one and the shape of the front of it is different. I decided I’m going to return that one and I talked with a place that’s closer to work. They found a new one for me that’s almost a perfect match but the postive and negative terminals on the solenoid are reversed plus the solenoid is turned 90 degrees clockwise from the original so the stock locations of wiring doesn’t quite line up. There’s a plastic tab on the positive terminal that forces me to orient the cable in a way that might interfere with a cable linkage for the transmission. I could cut that tab off so I could get the stock orientation for that but that means putting the back of the positive cable pretty close to the negative terminal and I doubt that’s a good idea, especially once it has a few kms on it.
Looks like I’m headed back to shop number 2 tomorrow to see if there’s anything they can suggest. I had this shop test the old starter and it is having issues.
Greg
[URL=http://s257.photobucket.com/user/horatio50b/media/2014-07-17_18-41-06_570_Calgary.jpg.html][IMG]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh239/horatio50b/2014-07-17_18-41-06_570_Calgary.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Sigh. This is so often the case with aftermarket parts. It really sucks.
Keep us posted on how your search goes.
OK, back on the road.
I decided to install the rebuilt unit over the weekend as we needed the van and I didn’t know what Monday was going to look like to install the new unit from the shop. It has been working great so that’s good news.
More good news is that the newly ordered starter is much better match than the other. In this case they were both Mitsuba which is OEM for the Odyssey but they appear to have a glitch in their part number system. What was originally ordered was a 1995 piece which makes sense (it’s a 1995 Odyssey) but apparently the necessary part is from 1996. The order was placed using SM-402-03 but I think the correct number is 442-03 instead. The shop took some photos of the 2 side by side to send to the distributor partly to show that there was an error but also so they can (hopefully) correct the numbers. IN any case, the solenoid now has the correct orientation. The only thing that concerns me a little is that the motor housing is a little shorter on the replacement unit but it’s kind of a good thing as far as installation goes.
My plan is to leave the rebuilt one in for now and swap that out for the new one in a few weeks when I’m doing some other work in that area (radiator hose and thermostat).
Thanks again for the help!
More pics for those interested.
[URL=http://s257.photobucket.com/user/horatio50b/media/2014-07-22_16-58-29_798_Calgary.jpg.html][IMG]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh239/horatio50b/2014-07-22_16-58-29_798_Calgary.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s257.photobucket.com/user/horatio50b/media/2014-07-22_16-57-48_820_Calgary.jpg.html][IMG]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh239/horatio50b/2014-07-22_16-57-48_820_Calgary.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s257.photobucket.com/user/horatio50b/media/2014-07-22_16-59-33_749_Calgary.jpg.html][IMG]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh239/horatio50b/2014-07-22_16-59-33_749_Calgary.jpg[/IMG][/URL]I would say poo to a re builder and go to an autoparts store. They will have the correct starter, and most will have a parts warranty along with it. Don’t settle for the solenoid being off center or backwards or any of that garbage. It’s all garbage. Get a OE replacement put it in and you’ll never have to worry about it again. The only time I will put something different in is if the manufacture has updated it for whatever reason, and I know I won’t have any problems. Otherwise what comes out goes in.
The problem is, to most people, autoparts store means one of the chain stores, and what you are going to get there is a remanufactured unit. While this comes with a warranty you often face the job of removing and replacing these warrantied units in order to find a good one.
Buy new OEM and I agree, no problem. But, it is going to cost you. I am fortunate in having a local rebuilder who will make the unit the same as new for way less than the cost of new. The only down side I see to this is the turn around time which might be as long as several days.
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