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I did some searching before posting, and found nothing, so I’m asking here. If anyone knows of a thread where the possible answer to this exists, please tell me.
I’m working on my 1953 Studebaker Commander and rebuilding the brake system. I removed the cylinder on the driver side and saw that the boots were rotted, so I removed them and attempted to gently remove the pistons. I tried progressively harder, until I reached for penetrating fluid, after waiting for a while for that to do it’s magic. I reached for the blow torch. I heated evenly (as I’ve seen on ETCG and other Youtube videos.) As of right now I’m stuck. I have penetrating fluid soaking inside and on both ends. I’m not at all worried about some rubber being destroyed as I have rebuild kits, and assume that if anyone is actually inside, it needs replacing.
I’m going to do the other side as well as I know that when one thing in a vehicle needs replacing and it’s for example; rubber. Replace everything like it at once, the others aren’t far behind the broken one. I’ve included a pic of the cylinder. The piston is in the centre.
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I’m looking for parts, but the only ones I’m currently finding are $90 each. I’m not wanting to pay that of course and am looking for ones which are substantially less. I found a number of them on ebay and auto parts stores’ websites for much less. The problem I see with them is the mounting side doesn’t look like mine.
Here’s an excellent page on someone redoing theirs which is identical to mine in every way I can tell.
http://www.theymightberacing.com/Projects/InSitu/SC53/BrakeSystem.aspxThe attachment is of what my front cylinders look like.
A woman whom owns a very similar car to mine is going disc and I’m really interested in knowing what she found because I don’t want to not be able to find parts some day. The main reason the brakes on mine are in such bad condition is because prior to my owning it, it sat in a field in Cali for 10 years. If you take care of what you own, it should look good and work the same, if not. Well, you have what I do on your hands.
I just found this.. Not an exact match, but not particularly expensive either.
http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-WC8379-Wheel-Cylinder-Assembly/dp/B000CQTK12In ten years of sitting I feel sure the brake fluid got wet. If you ever got the cylinders apart you would find pitting which means the cup rubbers won’t seal.
Now, you could talk to local machine shops. Maybe the cylinders could be bored out and lined. But then you’d be back in big money.
Only solution if you want to reuse would be to punch the old cups and chunks out. And then by the time you finish honing the bores until totally smooth—The new cups won’t seal. (you’ll be removing a lot of metal..errr…rust)
Ughhhh… Only solution would be to replace with either a repop or something that might be coaxed into functioning. With brakes? I’d just rather see someone spend the $$ and get it done right the first time.
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Sorry, I just realised that I had already written a thread on this. I don’t know how to delete this.
I’m currently working on my 1953 Studebaker Commander, and to repair the brakes to acceptable, working condition. I need to rebuild the wheel cylinders, and they have a lot of rust around and in them. Both of the front cylinders were stuck, so I used a C clamp on both, and managed to free the left wheel cylinder after having pushed the pistons loose and then using a drill and flat bit rotated the piston (using loads of lubricant) until it was far enough out to where I could forcefully pull it out, and remove the rest of the internals. I successfully cleaned and honed the cylinder and now looks much better.
The right side is where I have the bigger problem. I pushed the pistons inward towards the centre of the cylinder, and performed the same procedure as the left side and used my drill with flat bit to attempt to rotate the piston inside the cylinder. New problem and something I didn’t realise. In rotating the part which holds onto the edge of the brake shoe, the little piece of metal detached from the main piston area. It doesn’t look like it broke, but can intentionally be removed from the piston. The problem now is that I have no idea how to rotate as there’s really not that much to hold onto on the outside of the piston. I haven’t tried to heat this side, and am hoping someone has some advice. I pushed both pistons in about as far as they’ll go and can imagine the spring is fully compressed inside the cylinder.
I would love to simply buy new cylinders, but the year of my car is at the cusp of when Studebaker was changing brake parts, and the only ones I’ve found which will fit on my car are $90 a wheel. If the parts were $30 something or less, I would just buy a new or rebuilt one.
I can probably provide pics if requested.
Progress update… The left side came out with a lot of coaxing. The right side is where I now have a bigger problem. I’m also aware that once I hone and remove material from the surface of the cylinder, the seal will be less effective and might cause leaks. It might however not be big enough to do that, and I would like to exhaust all non-expensive options before I’m forced to purchased an expensive cylinder.
The right side is where I have the bigger problem. I pushed the pistons inward towards the centre of the cylinder, and performed the same procedure as the left side and used my drill with flat bit to attempt to rotate the piston inside the cylinder. New problem and something I didn’t realise. In rotating the part which holds onto the edge of the brake shoe, the little piece of metal detached from the main piston area. It doesn’t look like it broke, but can intentionally be removed from the piston. The problem now is that I have no idea how to rotate as there’s really not that much to hold onto on the outside of the piston. I haven’t tried to heat this side, and am hoping someone has some advice. I pushed both pistons in about as far as they’ll go and can imagine the spring is fully compressed inside the cylinder.
I would love to simply buy new cylinders, but the year of my car is at the cusp of when Studebaker was changing brake parts, and the only ones I’ve found which will fit on my car are $90 a wheel. If the parts were $30 something or less, I would just buy a new or rebuilt one.
I can probably provide pics if requested.
This is somewhat dangerous, but have you tried using compressed air through the bleeder screw to “blow” the pistons out of the cylinders?
I would think you’d want the pistons out of there in order to rehabilitate the hydraulics properly.
I think I saw that in another thread here. The part about wearing safety glasses because the pistons can shoot out like a bullet. I’ll give that a try when I can buy a proper threaded compressor fitting at HD as I wouldn’t trust putting just pressure on it from something which is made to spray air out the tip.
If you are balking at a 90 dollar wheel cylinder you are really not going to like what a disc brake upgrade is likely to cost…
Honestly spend the money and save yourself tons of aggravation. Given the fact that it had been sitting as long as it was and that they are as stuck as they are the chances of them not being pretty trashed when you get the pistons out is slim to none. Saving things that have been sitting and/or neglected is kind of my jam and in a case like this I usually opt for the new part unless it simply not available or the least cost effective option.
There is always a way to avoid buying the parts, it’s just a matter of if it will be cost-effective and reliable.
If you do get everything apart and not damaged you are probably not going to be able to just hone them and clean them up. If they are seriously pitted from rust or galled from the removal process they are going to have to be bored till smooth. Cup seals (I am pretty sure that will use a cup seal and not an o-ring on the pistons) are pretty forgiving but you there is a chance you will have to find an oversized cup seal or have to have pistons that will accept an o-ring made and that is not going to be cheap.
This is my logic on just getting wheel cylinders:
While there is a chance you can get them apart and they are OK it is fairly small, do you want to commit to that time on something that may be a total loss?
If they have to be machined you are going to spend more than the new ones so why bother with that path?If you do decide to go forward with it don’t even mess around with it and just break out the torch and get those suckers NICE and hot and then just punch the pistons out, those look like a straight bore wheel cylinder.
your kit came with pistons make it even easier and they blow a hole thorough them and they should come out super easy. Or, if you’re good with the torch you can just cut the piston out of the cylinder.
IfI’ve seen the cost of converting the front wheels to discs and it’s about $600 with a kit that another person with a similar vehicle has used. The problem with that also is that the MC is under the car attached to the chassis, which means I’ll have to move the MC to where it’s located in most modern cars. Yep, it’s expensive and elaborate.
However, I’m trying hard to push myself away from being part of the throw it away society, and I know it won’t always work. Sometimes you have to simply throw it away and purchase new. I at least want to say that I tried. If the cylinder leaks even a tiny amount, then I’ll say I exhausted all options and the only good and safe option remaining was to purchase a replacement.
Cap269: Here’s the link to the cylinder. https://www.studebakerparts.com/studebakerparts/store/s/agora.cgi?product=brakesa&cart_id=7743.12882
BRK003A BRAKE WHEEL CYLINDER
BRK003A-or 525821 FRONT WHEEL CYLINDER FOR 1950-1953 COMMANDER
TRUCK 1949-1957 1/2 TON 2R-3E 5,6,7 1954-1956 3R-2E:10,11 (1″)The ones with the coplaner mounting brackets/fasteners are very easy to find, it’s just finding one that has diagonal mounts and a 90deg hose connection to main cylinder angle is hard to find.
The co-owner/employee Chris told me that it’s just unfortunate that I have a car which was on the edge of being changed to a less expensive part. I know that parts for a newer car would be much more expensive.
Have you tried Hemmings Motor News, or any Studebaker owners clubs?
It can be amazing, at times, what is available outside of regular retail channels.
[quote=”Spannerbird” post=142310]I’ve seen the cost of converting the front wheels to discs and it’s about $600 with a kit that another person with a similar vehicle has used. The problem with that also is that the MC is under the car attached to the chassis, which means I’ll have to move the MC to where it’s located in most modern cars. Yep, it’s expensive and elaborate.
However, I’m trying hard to push myself away from being part of the throw it away society, and I know it won’t always work. Sometimes you have to simply throw it away and purchase new. I at least want to say that I tried. If the cylinder leaks even a tiny amount, then I’ll say I exhausted all options and the only good and safe option remaining was to purchase a replacement.
Cap269: Here’s the link to the cylinder. https://www.studebakerparts.com/studebakerparts/store/s/agora.cgi?product=brakesa&cart_id=7743.12882
BRK003A BRAKE WHEEL CYLINDER
BRK003A-or 525821 FRONT WHEEL CYLINDER FOR 1950-1953 COMMANDER
TRUCK 1949-1957 1/2 TON 2R-3E 5,6,7 1954-1956 3R-2E:10,11 (1″)The ones with the coplaner mounting brackets/fasteners are very easy to find, it’s just finding one that has diagonal mounts and a 90deg hose connection to main cylinder angle is hard to find.
The co-owner/employee Chris told me that it’s just unfortunate that I have a car which was on the edge of being changed to a less expensive part. I know that parts for a newer car would be much more expensive.[/quote]
I totally get trying to not throw stuff away and rebuild what you have, just be aware it could be a time hole.
You do not have to switch to drop pedals in order to go to disc brakes. It is entirely possible to mount a newer master cylinder in a drop pedal setup although it can get real cumbersome with power brakes. small diameter vacuum boosters or a hydra-boost can make for a more compact package or you can just go without power brakes. Wilwood makes all kinds of master cylinders and proportioning valves that will work with a variety of both their and other calipers. It is also possible to size up OEM parts and get the flow/pressure numbers you need for good braking, but that takes some research and math.
For having sat all that time and with an under floor master I would expect it to be in as terrible shape and your wheel cylinders. Provided it is bad even if you don’t go to disc brakes now would be a great time to switch to a dual reservoir master cylinder as I am pretty sure your car would have a single reservoir one. It is a pretty legit safety upgrade; I once ended up crashing a toll both gate due to a blown out brake line on a single reservoir master cylinder…
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