Rough vibrating Idle – 1990 2.4 Nissan Axxess

[Josie]

Hi ETCG;

I now have 3 cars in the fleet and came to the one place where no one else will call me crazy for some help :-P.

I bought a 1990 Nissan Axxess (branded Nissan Prarie in other parts of the world I’m told) and it has the common Nissan 2.4 (KA24) 4cyl engine. its a my first Nissan and daily driver right now and works pretty well for a beater. No Check engine lights and all the electrics work :cheer:

Problems is I have a rough idle and there is very limited info/ videos on these models (they weren’t sold in North America for very long) So without a CEL to steer me somewhere to the cause, was hoping someone might have experience with the engine an know any common faults.

I have found 2 possible causes (when no CEL)

1) Unaccounted intake air (pirate air -ARRRR 😆 ) after the Mass Airflow Sensor / or a Vacuum leak – (saw the Fixing it forward 2003 Sentra tape fix 😉 )
2) Everyone’s favorite conclusion jump – the engine or trans mount

SYMPTOMS that might help diagnose

1) Car idles OK in PARK but vibrates bad when in gear at a stop
2) When in gear, its worst when my foot on the break
3) Does not vibrate when driving moving,
4) Rough startup – its Fuel injected but I need to feather the gas to get it running on a cold start. after 10 seconds idles/ runs fine (except the vibration)

Items to note that might be helpful
1) Flex exhaust pipe had a hole so I swapped that out already (fun job 😉
2) Took some MAF sensor cleaner and sprayed around the outside of intake past the sensor and no change to idle – checked air hoses on front of engine (not sure what hoses might be on the back
3) Since the flex pipe swap, I get a slight vibration in my butt at 100km/hr (60 mi) @ 2k but nothing at other speeds
4) Air filter is newish, same with plugs
5) uses oil – about 1 qt a month
6) car had a mouse in it (glove compartment) when I bought – hoping the uninvited guest has not buggered something. Can’t find any nest remnants elsewhere
7) Has around 300K on the engine.
8:) Coolant is up, car temp gauge never overheats but stays at 1/4 when highway driving. 1/2 way when stop go city driving. (strange? Might need a thermostat?) Either scenario – rough vibration at a stop in gear with foot on the brake
9) not suspecting Hunt idle which some of my past honda’s had, which was air in the cooling system. But the TACH never bounces like it did with them.
10) 2 exhaust manifold bolts are broken. – I’m not ready for EZ-outing them just yet. 😉

So before throwing parts at it and hoping, does any of this help figure what the cause could be? I paid well under $1000 for the car so not looking to make it showroom, just drive-able. If it can’t be fixed I may start renting it out as a paint shaker 😛

Thanks ETCG!

Topic

[college man]

Check for a fuel filter. My 1989 sentra had the fuel filter right under the brake booster.

[Josie]

Thanks College Man!

I do notice a longer than normal “whine??” of the fuel pump at start up. Never even thought this could be fuel related 😉

[Josie]

Well I am now thinking fuel could be the issue.

I found a rough Factory manual online for the car (message me and I can e-mail it to you) and I see the fuel filter is up under the car (near the frame). I’ll have to jack to get at it.

Before I start there, I decided to try

1) check and clean air intake (have some MAF cleaner)
2) Shucks, might as well do the air filter since I am in there.
3) Then I bought some fuel line cleaner to see if that helps. Thing is I doubt this will fix the issue, but I do want to truly nail down the system that could be at fault. If the gas additive cleaner helps even a bit, I can then suspect fuel and keep troubleshooting. I am fearful of what those gas lines would be like to get off.!

I parked the car at the my local parts dealer and when I came out (20min and 20 bucks later) I actually had a hard time to start the car. It was parked on a slight hill facing down. I cranked twice and no dice. I had to push the throttle pedal (about half way) and crank to get it going actually! Car has 1/2 tank of gas! So this says to me it is starving for fuel.

Stay tuned, I’m off for the weekend and I’ll update soon. tomorrow or Sunday.

[college man]

If you do get to the fuel filter change. While the filter is removed have a helper crank
the car while someone uses a jar or can to catch the fuel from the tank to see what the
fuel looks like and the dirt factor/sediment. This will also tell you if the pump is putting fuel out.

[Gabriel]

Check the idle control valve. I had a similar issue when the car is idling. Turned out that it was staying open all the time, thus not regulating the air, causing the car to vibrate when in idle.

[Josie]

UPDATE:

Finally got under the car on Sunday to have a look. I was glad to see that its not the original 27 year old fuel filter :P. Looks like an easy swap since the hoses going in and out are rubber :cheer: Only thing I did not like is they used the worm gear type clamps which i hear are not as effective. I’ll replace the hose and get the proper clamps.

As for an air leak, I indeed found one after all. There is a valve cover to intake hose that had a crack. Its a special fit and in a tight area. A stright rubber air hose gets kinked so I need to locate a solid elbow at a plumbing store and that should work fine.

As for Air intake, well gosh! UGLY!. There was a flex pipe leak that got beyond tolerable so I cut it out and replaced with a jobber piece last month. But now I realized the intake must have been sucking up all that exhaust for a few months! :blink: The air filter was BLACK! So I swapped that and cleaned the intake, MAF and the intake hose. Then cleaned out the throttle body. WOW instant HP! 😉

Then I ran the gas tank treatment in and it does seem to help a bit so indeed I should look at doing the filter since it will be a easy job. Only trouble is I figure I’ll need to “burp” the fuel system when its finished. I went peaking around already for a banjo fitting somewhere before the fuel rail but couldn’t see one. Saw a rubber hose leading up to it though so maybe I can do it from there?

Anyho, Its almost full on Northwest rainy season so I’ll be waiting for a dry day to check it out. Stay tuned.

[college man]

What you could do is turn the key on and off 3-4 times without starting it.
This should prime the fuel rail. 🙂

[Josie]

UPDATE 2:

Finally saw a dry day to tackle this today. B)

I replaced the fuel filter. Thank god I bought some extra hose too. I thought I was a quite a smarty pants :blush: and used vice grips to clamp off the rubber hose on both sides of the filter. Well once I got the the new filter in, I must have put a hole in the hose where it was gripped and it started dripping gas when I started it up! 🙁 . (totally used the 3 or 4 pump cycles to prime it College man! 🙂 )

Replaced the hose and clamps and checked for leaks (TWICE 😉 ) and it starts a little better. Seems quieter too! I also found less noise from the fuel pump “prime” so I would certainly say its totally worth the 20 bucks!

Thing is, it still starts and runs rougher than I would think is normal. :unsure:

Also on the list today was to replace the spark plugs and got 3 of the 4 done. They were are all in there so tight! GRRR. I found having the engine a bit warm helped so I’ll tackle the 4th another day. (was getting dark) I found putting them back in I also needed to torque them hard. Its a bad design (they go in on an angle). I sure miss my Honda’s style! 😛

Anyway. Again, the car works a bit better and I’ll know more after a few days I figure. I haven’t put a lot of money into parts so its been worth trying to fix this so far. . Thing is , I have to wonder, do you think this idle issue will have a “silver bullet” that will fix it in 1 repair? Or is it (normally) a bunch of little things that 1 by 1, that once you get them sorted, its then better? Just want to make sure I cut my losses (and my patience) before I waste my time on this $500 rig. Its my DD and works fine. Just hate the “paint shaker” treatment I get at stop lights :angry:

[college man]

Try doing a power balance test. You may also want to run a compression test on all cylinders. This
will tell you the health of the engine. With the mileage that is on there the valves have probably never
been adjusted. This can cause bad idle.

[Author]

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