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I’m really excited for this because i’m an independent technician and moved away from dealerships because of bad experiences. I think this will be a benefit for all technicians because it will provide more information, factory wiring diagrams!!!!! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: and there even saying it will prevent from buying those 10k snap-on scan tools. What i’m really excited about like i was saying above was to have factory wiring diagrams and hopefully be able to have more capabilities to rear sensor & have better output state controls for diagnosis
~Here’s what they are saying~
For vehicles manufactured from 2002 through model year 2014, the law requires manufacturers to provide to owners and independent repairers the same website repair information and access to the same original equipment diagnostic tools that manufactures provide to dealers at a fair market price.
New provisions of the law will require manufacturers starting in 2018 to provide motor vehicles owners or their designated independent repair facility access to complete repair information through the utilization of a universal interface that complies with the SAE J 2534 or ISO 22900 standards. This universal interface will eliminate the need for the purchase of expensive manufacturers’ diagnostic scanning tools. The universal interface will act as a universal scan tool that will extract repair information and diagnostic codes from any manufacturer make or model. This will level the playing field and provide the opportunity for motor vehicle owners to determine what is the problem(s) with their vehicle when the engine light comes on. This will ensure that independents are not forced to specialize in certain manufacturers vehicles, maintain a competitive repair industry and preserve the choice for consumers to go to the shop of their choice and ultimately to save money if they prefer to go to an independent repair shop.
More info can be found here
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On the surface it may sound good (a la the voting yes percentage) but as with many things like this there are a lot of unanswered questions and potential problems.
That service is going to cost. This means the independent will add the actual cost onto the customer bill or will they quadruple it and blame it on others?
What if multiple requests are made for information regarding some 150k miles beater that needs everything?
What’s a dealer going to do when some customer brings a car in after giving up on an independent? (I know what I would do; double the bill automatically for having to go back someone else’s work; be it proper work or a butcher job.)
What will happen if an independent throws in the towel on a job and blames it on the dealer/right to repair program by claiming the info is incorrect or whatever?
That’s just a sample of questions that will probably crop up.
I wonder how many of those that voted yes are even aware that they will likely be billed for this and that it’s also to not likely be a magic potion for every problem.
There will be issues with anything and what was mentioned above will happen no matter what anyway, but honestly this sounds like a step in the right direction to me. It feels similar to when OBDII came along in 1996. We used to have to have a box of connectors to go with the 5K scan tool that cost an extra 1K, now post 1996 model year we have one interface over all manufacturers and the ability to see live data. It really did do a lot to help out the diagnostic process and tool costs. Hopefully this law will do the same.
I think it will save technicians a lot of money for scanner and factory tool’s as any of us who have worked in a dealership know about the special tool room, only to find out they were never put back in their cases -.- Like i also said i’m excited for factory wire diagrams because we all know All Data/Michelle wiring diagrams arn’t the best.
This is not as good as you think. Yes, you now have access to that information…at fair market price…meaning what the dealer is charged for the information and tools, you will have to pay.
Dealers don’t get this stuff free, they have to buy it from the manufacturer or the manufacturer’s preferred vendor.
Sure you can now buy Subaru’s Select Monitor and SDI and the software for it. For the 7,500.00 price tag the dealer paid for it.
The factory wiring diagrams aren’t that great either, lately. Have you seen Chrysler’s new abortion of a diagram system? It’s illogical, doesn’t show the entire circuit, and you have to manually tell it to show you important items. Every single technician I know hates the thing, and so do the official Chrysler trainers.
Oh, and they’re correct about seventy percent of the time. There’s still a lot of vehicles out there that the wiring diagram team obviously didn’t read the build data.
Some of you guy’d don’t seem as excited as I do and that’s fine. But I’m always down for learning more about different manufacture specifics & technologies because it will only make me a better technician and make me more money in the end. We all know for the most part the mechanical part’s of the vehicles really haven’t changed and that’s not really what i’m talking about. I just feel like this will be another asset to technicians that want to take advantage of it for in the “work place pay” and “side work pay”.
Also about the pricing of this, I personally don’t think the “information” part of it will be that expensive because it will just end up being a monthly subscription. I could see the factory tool’s being quit costly. Hopefully everyone takes advantage of this and invest’s in their future.
[quote=”Pollo Dustino” post=37289]The factory wiring diagrams aren’t that great either, lately. Have you seen Chrysler’s new abortion of a diagram system? It’s illogical, doesn’t show the entire circuit, and you have to manually tell it to show you important items. Every single technician I know hates the thing, and so do the official Chrysler trainers.
Oh, and they’re correct about seventy percent of the time. There’s still a lot of vehicles out there that the wiring diagram team obviously didn’t read the build data.[/quote]
Well i’ve never worked for chrysler so i’m sorry to hear that the wiring diagrams are not up to par. But i’ve used Ford’s factory wiring diagrams off the PTS website (There technician website) & also General Motors Factory wiring diagrams. Let me tell you there amazing =-)
To SpawnedX: Think positive buddy ya AllData Cost’s a pretty penny and i’m not arguing that but i’m the type of person that would pay for information (AllData)because I enjoy learning and investing in myself. If it’s going to benefit me on a repair or even help me as a technician i’m down. But most of the time I can do it without help. But my favorite part of diagnosing is printing out the wiring diagram & using my highlighter =-0 & I also love when you have a scantool that can take output state control =-0
The statute says the car maker does not have to release any trade secrets and anything provided must be at a “reasonable cost”.
At what point is a trade secret determined and what is a “reasonable cost”?If a car maker spends 5 years and 20 million dollars engineering one component what would be a reasonable cost for releasing info about the service and repair of that one component?
VW spent a pile of millions designing and building the Bugatti Veyron and they lose something like 5-10 million dollars per car on every one of them that were made. Reasonable cost could translate into a substantial stack of money.
The thing that makes me a bit uneasy is the logic that Company A spends X dollars and X years doing the footwork on something and is then expected to hand it over to everyone on the block.
Why not carry this over to every other profession? Force doctors and lawyers to make available at reasonable cost all legal and medical advice as an example.Since almost every car owner knows less than zero about a car (most don’t even raise the hood to check the oil nor do they even care) I think most that voted on this are under the rosy impression they will all get off on the cheap now.
Theoretical question. Customer Smith (known to be frugal) enters the shop with a glitch that requires a buy-in for info or tools in regards to his problem. What if the buy-in was 500 dollars? How is that scenario going to play on out?
[quote=”Bluesnut” post=37440]The statute says the car maker does not have to release any trade secrets and anything provided must be at a “reasonable cost”.
At what point is a trade secret determined and what is a “reasonable cost”?If a car maker spends 5 years and 20 million dollars engineering one component what would be a reasonable cost for releasing info about the service and repair of that one component?
VW spent a pile of millions designing and building the Bugatti Veyron and they lose something like 5-10 million dollars per car on every one of them that were made. Reasonable cost could translate into a substantial stack of money.
The thing that makes me a bit uneasy is the logic that Company A spends X dollars and X years doing the footwork on something and is then expected to hand it over to everyone on the block.
Why not carry this over to every other profession? Force doctors and lawyers to make available at reasonable cost all legal and medical advice as an example.Since almost every car owner knows less than zero about a car (most don’t even raise the hood to check the oil nor do they even care) I think most that voted on this are under the rosy impression they will all get off on the cheap now.
Theoretical question. Customer Smith (known to be frugal) enters the shop with a glitch that requires a buy-in for info or tools in regards to his problem. What if the buy-in was 500 dollars? How is that scenario going to play on out?[/quote]
This times infinity.
This is why I am not excited about this law. The good news is, Mr. Frugal will go harass the independents now instead of the dealerships.
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