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Great video!!
“OH-FUDGE!”….. only I didn’t say fudge…. I think I first said that was when I was around 16 years old just after I broke the first bolt on my car… At the time the only Tap and die kit I could afford was a Sri Lankan – el cheapo set… Took some time before I really knew how to use these correctly… I wish the internet would have been around back then..
Here are some other things if I may add to or expound on:
If you can remove the broken portion, that is always preferable to totally drilling out hole…
A left hand drill bit (not an extractor) is a great tool… Sometimes these will spin the broken bolt stud out before you have to drill almost a total hole….. When Eric had the bolt stud tightening with his drill bit (a right hand turn) I am willing to bet a left hand drill bit would have extracted it at that point… But Eric was trying to show worst case… Since he just put that bolt in there, it was not corroded/seized the way an old bolt might be… About 20% of the time I can get a left hand bit to turn and run the busted bolt stud out (and boy are you happy when you see it spinning back out)…
Here is a Snap on left hand drill bit set… They are expensive ($57.55), but guess what… You break em, you get a new one… And if you use these enough… You will break some..
Let the drill bit do the work.. Apply pressure, but not so much so that you bend the drill bit… This is something that most guys eventually get a feel for… Start with the smallest bit and work up… The first hole (as seen by the video) is the hardest one to drill (and drill straight)… As you work up sizes it will go much faster…
EZ-OUTS aren’t…. Eric alluded to this a bit… When you bust one, you are in store for a very bad day… They are harder steel than the bolt was, and if it breaks tightly in the hole, you are back to square one, with an even harder object to remove… I really don’t use them that much… If you do use them, only turn by hand slowly and watch them… And when you can still feel the EZ-OUT twisting but don’t see it twisting, then that is the time to STOP!!! (that is the only warning you will get from an EZ-OUT prior to it breaking and you crying like a little girl because you will now spend the next 3-6 hours trying to get it out)….
EZ outs…
I have had good luck with these extractors (see below), when you have a good sized hole, I put one of these in and try to thread out the remaining portion…. I like them much better than EZ outs because EZ outs screw in and tighten up hard and fast and push outward on the threads. These extractors wedge in and you generally can pull them back out if you can’t still turn the bolt to loosen..
Another technique if you have enough of the stud above the surface but not enough to get vice grips on it is to take a nut and weld it to the top of the broken stud…. Care must be taken if working around aluminum…… The heat of the weld also can help loosen the threads…. Then apply plenty of PB, Kroil, Trans fluid with Acetone or whatever your favorite lubricant is and try to unbolt it again…
Additionally, sometimes if you booger up the threads, you may have a chance at restoring them… So before you try to re-drill and Tap, they may be able to be fixed…. Below is a Snap on rethreading set… I have used this a lot and it has saved my bacon… I keep it fairly close… It is pricey ($128.70) and you can get the exact same set for half the price in a Craftsman version (the Company that makes it for both Snap on and Craftsman is named KASTAR)… But with the Snap on one, when you break a rethreading tap, they give you a new one… Not so easy to do with the Craftsman labeled one…
Note, when you want to clean up threads, never use a regular tap or die to do it.. Use a rethreading tap or die ….. Regular taps and dies are made to cut into virgin steel/aluminum. The rethreader just forms the proper pitch and shape again…
One of my first lessons as a tech was when you had to drill out a broken bolt stud and just screwed up the threads and had to use a bigger bolt was to make the proper sized hole for the tap using the proper sized drill bit….. I am including a chart which should be helpful (see below)…
For example… If Eric completely boogered the threads on this M6 X 1.0 bolt and wanted to replace it with a larger M8 X 1.0 bolt, the proper drill bit size to use would be a size J drill bit (check chart below)… What is a size J drill bit you ask? Well when you buy a large set of bits (the Harbor Freight 115 piece drill bit set is a good economical choice) the bits will be marked with numerical sizes, fractional sizes and letter sizes… That is where this size comes from… You need the right set to have the right size… When you drill the right size, the tap will easily work its way in there… If you pick the wrong size bit (too small) you really run the risk of breaking your tap…
Too large and you won’t be able to cut proper sized threads to hold the bolt… Long story short… Use the chart and the correct sized drill bit prior to tapping….Another option is to heli-coil repair a thread… Some Heli-coil kits come with the proper sized tap and insertion tool for the application… it is the same technique, except when you are done, you thread in the new heli-coil insert and you can use the same(original) sized bolt.
This set has:
29 fractional sizes
26 letter sizes A to Z
60 numbered wire gauges
Cheers!
Karl
Great video, Eric.
Like you, I use these methods and in about the same order. (I might grab the ‘big red wrench’ sooner if I’m working on cast iron or steel.) Your point about cast aluminum is excellent.
As an aside, what about the other way,(stripped threads)? Would you normally retap for the next larger size, or use an insert such as Heli-coils? If you mostly retap, when would you use inserts?
Thanks,
Moparfan[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=87002]Great video!!
“OH-FUDGE!”….. only I didn’t say fudge…. I think I first said that was when I was around 16 years old just after I broke the first bolt on my car… At the time the only Tap and die kit I could afford was a Sri Lankan – el cheapo set… Took some time before I really knew how to use these correctly… I wish the internet would have been around back then..
Here are some other things if I may add to or expound on:
If you can remove the broken portion, that is always preferable to totally drilling out hole…
A left hand drill bit (not an extractor) is a great tool… Sometimes these will spin the broken bolt stud out before you have to drill almost a total hole….. When Eric had the bolt stud tightening with his drill bit (a right hand turn) I am willing to bet a left hand drill bit would have extracted it at that point… But Eric was trying to show worst case… Since he just put that bolt in there, it was not corroded/seized the way an old bolt might be… About 20% of the time I can get a left hand bit to turn and run the busted bolt stud out (and boy are you happy when you see it spinning back out)…
Here is a Snap on left hand drill bit set… They are expensive ($57.55), but guess what… You break em, you get a new one… And if you use these enough… You will break some..
Let the drill bit do the work.. Apply pressure, but not so much so that you bend the drill bit… This is something that most guys eventually get a feel for… Start with the smallest bit and work up… The first hole (as seen by the video) is the hardest one to drill (and drill straight)… As you work up sizes it will go much faster…
EZ-OUTS aren’t…. Eric alluded to this a bit… When you bust one, you are in store for a very bad day… They are harder steel than the bolt was, and if it breaks tightly in the hole, you are back to square one, with an even harder object to remove… I really don’t use them that much… If you do use them, only turn by hand slowly and watch them… And when you can still feel the EZ-OUT twisting but don’t see it twisting, then that is the time to STOP!!! (that is the only warning you will get from an EZ-OUT prior to it breaking and you crying like a little girl because you will now spend the next 3-6 hours trying to get it out)….
EZ outs…
I have had good luck with these extractors (see below), when you have a good sized hole, I put one of these in and try to thread out the remaining portion…. I like them much better than EZ outs because EZ outs screw in and tighten up hard and fast and push outward on the threads. These extractors wedge in and you generally can pull them back out if you can’t still turn the bolt to loosen..
Another technique if you have enough of the stud above the surface but not enough to get vice grips on it is to take a nut and weld it to the top of the broken stud…. Care must be taken if working around aluminum…… The heat of the weld also can help loosen the threads…. Then apply plenty of PB, Kroil, Trans fluid with Acetone or whatever your favorite lubricant is and try to unbolt it again…
Additionally, sometimes if you booger up the threads, you may have a chance at restoring them… So before you try to re-drill and Tap, they may be able to be fixed…. Below is a Snap on rethreading set… I have used this a lot and it has saved my bacon… I keep it fairly close… It is pricey ($128.70) and you can get the exact same set for half the price in a Craftsman version (the Company that makes it for both Snap on and Craftsman is named KASTAR)… But with the Snap on one, when you break a rethreading tap, they give you a new one… Not so easy to do with the Craftsman labeled one…
Note, when you want to clean up threads, never use a regular tap or die to do it.. Use a rethreading tap or die ….. Regular taps and dies are made to cut into virgin steel/aluminum. The rethreader just forms the proper pitch and shape again…
One of my first lessons as a tech was when you had to drill out a broken bolt stud and just screwed up the threads and had to use a bigger bolt was to make the proper sized hole for the tap using the proper sized drill bit….. I am including a chart which should be helpful (see below)…
For example… If Eric completely boogered the threads on this M6 X 1.0 bolt and wanted to replace it with a larger M8 X 1.0 bolt, the proper drill bit size to use would be a size J drill bit (check chart below)… What is a size J drill bit you ask? Well when you buy a large set of bits (the Harbor Freight 115 piece drill bit set is a good economical choice) the bits will be marked with numerical sizes, fractional sizes and number sizes… That is where this size comes from… You need the right set to have the right size… When you drill the right size, the tap will easily work its way in there… If you pick the wrong size bit (too small) you really run the risk of breaking your tap…
Too large and you won’t be able to cut proper sized threads to hold the bolt… Long story short… Use the chart and the correct sized drill bit prior to tapping….Another option is to heli-coil repair a thread… Some Heli-coil kits come with the proper sized tap and insertion tool for the application… it is the same technique, except when you are done, you thread in the new heli-coil insert and you can use the same(original) sized bolt.
This set has:
29 fractional sizes
26 letter sizes A to Z
60 numbered wire gaugesCheers!
Karl[/quote]
Thanks for the fantastic post man!
Great info on the video. The only things I would add are use a Dremmel and a Drill Doctor. I use a Dremmel to straighten out the top of the broken off fastener so it makes it much easier to drill down the center. The Drill Doctor is just indispensable unless you are really good at sharpening bits free hand (witch I can’t do to save my life), this tool will sharpen bits better than new in most cases. I have had the same drill index for twenty years and have only replaced a few, I just sharpen them. If the bit is sharp you will not have to push hard and the bit should not break as easily. Now in my new job most of our fasteners that break are stainless steel, that is all we can use in the ovens because regular steel just disintegrates at the temps these run at. Stainless SUCKS to drill !!!!! One other tip is what we would use on the rear exhaust manifold bolts on the GM gen 3 and newer motors. Once you have the manifold off we would use a MIG welder to blob (yes I know very technical term) some welding material on to the broken off bolt which is usually either flush or countersunk with the head. What happens is the weld will not stick to the aluminum head but will stick to the bolt and the heat will soften up the thread locking compound used by the factory. Now, once you have enough weld built up you can use a Turbo Socket or similar tool to grab onto and remove the broken bolt. We would be into an exhaust manifold for sometimes five or so hours when we had a couple of broken off bolts and the dealership would charge accordingly. Once the manager and writers found out about our little trick and saw we could replace a manifold with a couple of broken bolts in 1.5h or less they stopped paying us the five they used to to do the job and pay book time and maybe a little more. This was fair in my mind as because I see broken bolts as straight time jobs. Then we found out they were still charging the customer the 5 hours and sometimes more for the job. To this day they wonder why the techs had such bad attitudes.
Broken fasteners suck. Great video on getting them out. 🙂
Toyota Karl is there anything you don’t own? The snap on guy
must love you. 😆[quote=”college man” post=87194]Broken fasteners suck. Great video on getting them out. 🙂
Toyota Karl is there anything you don’t own? The snap on guy
must love you. :lol:[/quote]Gotta have the tools to do the job 😛 (it is a bit messy now since I am re-organizing my garage)
Great video Eric.
The only thing I was thinking during the video was as your bolt was an M6 X 1.00 you’d just take 1 from 6 (=5) and that means you drill from small to big up to max 5mm. Then tap your 1mm thread. Just would take the guess work away re ”should I drill bigger or leave it”.
Ps, I’m no expert… my bench skills are ok but probably 4 out of 10. I’ve had some epic fails with broken fasteners 🙁
🙂
Ps, regarding sharpening drill bits. I’m sure there is a special tool for it. However you can just use your stone wheel to sharpen the bits. As long as the angle is correct of the point (59 degrees if memory serves) then it will cut properly.
I made myself a handy drill bit gauge at college to go on my key ring:
[URL=http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/DRKIL_zps6e400fc0.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/DRKIL_zps6e400fc0.jpg[/IMG][/URL]Just used a piece of mild steel, junior hacksaw and emery cloth 🙂
[quote=”Webby the Bear” post=87338]Ps, regarding sharpening drill bits. I’m sure there is a special tool for it. However you can just use your stone wheel to sharpen the bits. As long as the angle is correct of the point (59 degrees if memory serves) then it will cut properly.
I made myself a handy drill bit gauge at college to go on my key ring:
[URL=http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/webbybear1/media/DRKIL_zps6e400fc0.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/webbybear1/DRKIL_zps6e400fc0.jpg[/IMG][/URL]Just used a piece of mild steel, junior hacksaw and emery cloth :)[/quote]
That’s pretty cool. Thanks for sharing it.
[quote=”Webby the Bear” post=87338]Ps, regarding sharpening drill bits. I’m sure there is a special tool for it. However you can just use your stone wheel to sharpen the bits. As long as the angle is correct of the point (59 degrees if memory serves) then it will cut properly.
I made myself a handy drill bit gauge at college to go on my key ring:
The 59 degree angle is not the problem that is the easy one. The problem is all the other angles that go into sharpening a drill bit properly. I am impressed when I see someone free hand sharpen a drill bit and knows what they are doing. I have tried for years and finally gave up a couple of years ago and purchased the Drill Doctor.
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