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Hey guys and gals, hopefully you may be able to point me into the right direction for a dilemma that I have encountered.
The motor in my 2001 Mazda Protege (2.0L) has bad oil rings and smokes horribly on start up. Once it is at temp, it doesn’t appear to burn/smoke any oil visibly. If it sits for 3-4 hours, I get the “small puff a smoke”, however if it sits for 8+ hours, I’ll fog out the workplace, home, etc, especially if it was a day after an oil change.
I need to either get the motor rebuilt or find a re-manufactured motor but here in lays the problem.
The motor rebuild is $1800-2200 at various places (complete rebuild) – I haven’t been able to find a source anywhere, Mazda, engine rebuilders, etc, that has the motor (FS-DE) that I can buy. I have found used motors out of a junk yard that has 30-70k miles on it for around 800-1200, minus shipping, which brings it within cost of getting the original motor rebuilt.
Any suggestions on what route may be best? Or if anyone has place that has the motors, I’ll happily drive up and down the West Coast to pick one up.
Thanks!
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Your symptoms lead toward valve guide seals not oil rings. How many miles on the engine? How much oil consumption? Any other running issues? Replacing the valve guide seals is not a major repair, the head does not need to be removed.
have you done a compression test or leak down test?
You may just need valve guide seals.As for the rebuild.
I would get the motor with the 30k on it.The rebuild will
cost you to much in the end to do it right.Thank you for the reply! Sorry, I could have included the other information.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123770462-Smoke-on-cold-start
The 2.0L motors tend to have oil ring issues with the original design. I have talked to a few owners that have had to get a rebuild for the same thing. Valve guide seals rarely fix the issue.
I have done a compression and leak down test on it, 160 on all cylinders. The car just broke 180k miles though. Still getting 380-420 miles a tank, etc. I add a quart of oil roughly every 2-3 weeks, or about 1000-1500 miles.
I am more than willing just to do the guides, but I have a feeling it is more along the lines of just the rings.
try the guides. if it was oil rings it should smoke constantly. sometimes you dont notice when its running that its smoking because the smoke mixes with air. if you smell your exhaust and its burning oil (whether or not you see it) you will smell it in the emissions. Guides are cheap and if its not the problem then you arent out too much money.
To tell you to rebuild or get a newer engine more information is needed. will they recondition the block and head making sure everything is clean and not cracked, will they just be replacing rings or will they be doing machine work and replacing all bearings and balancing a crank. If they are going to do a full on block up rebuild and it comes out to the same price as a junk yard engine (with shipping) i would go with a rebuild. a junk yard motor is like buying a used car, never know what you are getting into. (have had bad luck with junk yard parts over the years)
I completely agree it sounds like guides, for the cost i say slam new guide seals in it, dont even have to take the engine out. And yes if you go for an engine I suggest a proper rebuilt complete engine or long block. the history of those engines are not great for small problems like that, great engine in general.
I’ll go ahead and try the guides. I rather spend as little as I can and if it really is something THAT simple, I’ll kick myself, twice.
Is replacing the guides pretty straight forward or need any special tools? I have done valve adjustments but never any replacements.
Also, it looks as if there are 2 sizes; .236 and .2375″
The FSM doesn’t have it listed as to what size it should be. Take one out and measure?
when i did it i had to buy a spark plug attachment to my compressor to screw into the hole to keep the valve closed and a pry thing (spring compressor?) to compress the valve spring to get to the seals. Mine is a v-8 took me about 3 hours to do all valves on both banks
Personally I prefer using string rather than air to keep the valve closed to get the spring off. The air will push the piston down usually and if you run out of air for any reason that valve will drop inside making it a really bad day. Get an old pull cord from a lawnmower and stuff it in the spark plug hole then rotate the engine by hand till the piston pushes the string up against the valve to hold it. Leave some string hanging out so you can pull it out when you are done. That way you can take a break for lunch or whatever and not have the air running nonstop.
works on any overhead valve engine. couple feet of pullstart cord is what i use but any string will work, just jam as much as will fit, a couple feet is more than plenty, and turn the engine BY HAND not with the starter motor, till it stops, thats when the string is packed in by the piston at the top and pushing the valve closed
Since it is a Mazda, have you looked into a JDM engine with low mileage. I have used them in Toyota’s and they are just like a new engine… the string trick works but is time consuming, thats how to lock a crank on a snowmobile to get the clutch loose haha… I have seen umbrella seals smoke like that but I think you have deeper issues than just a few stem seals.
Thanks for the advice everyone! I’ll give it shot after I finish the brake job on the truck.
[quote=”dollman0″ post=48465]Since it is a Mazda, have you looked into a JDM engine with low mileage. I have used them in Toyota’s and they are just like a new engine… the string trick works but is time consuming, thats how to lock a crank on a snowmobile to get the clutch loose haha… I have seen umbrella seals smoke like that but I think you have deeper issues than just a few stem seals.[/quote]
I have searched high and low for a JDM engine to swap out. I can fit the FS-DE (current stock MP3 motor) and the FS-ZE (JDM aftermarket 170HP motor). They all vary in mileage, mostly high, but all have been $300-600 in shipping, making the cost the same as getting the motor fully rebuilt.
If the new guides and seals don’t work, I’ll most likely get the motor rebuilt and do all the other work on the car at the same time. Nice summer time project I suppose.
I never recommend a rebuild. It’s often more expensive than straight up replacement. Especially when you do it right with the proper machining. For that reason I’d recommend a quality remanufactured unit over a rebuild.
That has been the challenge. I have yet to find a remanufactured motor for the car. (MP3 has some slightly different tweaks done to it to get the extra mind boggling 10hp)
I have only found Ebay motors but nothing locally or even down in California, unless I am simply not searching for the right thing.
If I can find a reman motor and do a swap over a weekend, I’d be thrilled! And I wouldn’t mind saving the coin too…
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