Push start ignition

[N]

Hi,
I noticed that there was a couple of forums that had people touch on doing a keyless ignition push button system, but none with detailed information. I was hoping that to help everyone who is interested in doing this that one or some of you on this website can give detailed information on this.

Here is the scenario, I have a Automatic 97 Honda Civic EX with a Viper 5706v car alarm that is a 2way and remote start. My ignition has been damaged by a thief and i cannot replace the ignition since the steering column was damaged. Therefore, I want to be able to start my car with a push button/switch without us of any keys. The button must engage all 3 steps of the ignition process, Acc 1, Acc 2, and momentary start.

Thank you in advance everyone. Please use as much images and videos as possible.

p.s here is a link showing this is possible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JRSkToc1Yg.

Topic

[Lorrin Barth]

I am leery of discussing a procedure that bypasses vehicle security systems. I know you are not a thief but the next person that reads this might be.

[Nick Warner]

While anything is possible to do that does not make it practical to do. I would say your best bet is to just get an undamaged column from a junkyard and put your car back to factory. Any time you start modifying the wiring to a car you can be playing with fire and can cause a lot of headaches.

Factory keyless systems use a lot of extra equipment to do this. A programmed key fob sends a signal to a sensor that validates it as correct for that car. Pushing the button signals the BCM that you would like to start the car, and if the BCM has a validated signal from the key fob transponder and a closed circuit reading for the brake switch it will then energize the ignition relay and the starter relay until the engine starts or until a timer in the BCM disengages the starter relay to prevent starter damage when the car is not starting. The system works nicely on my 07 Camry, but I wouldn’t try putting it into anything that didn’t come with it.

I would park the car in view of your bedroom window and within rifle range. Should thin the herd of car thieves if your aim is good. Is your neighborhood a bad one? I wouldn’t think many people would be willing to go to jail for an 18 year old compact car. At my house I leave the keys in everything. Then again, its all in rifle range.

[N]

Sorry if there is some confusion, but i want to utilize my alarm system with the push start button ignition not eliminate my alarm. If you want you can private message me.

[N]

Hi Nick,

I understand where you are coming from and would love to be able to shoot anyone who attempts to steal my car, but i live in CT which doesn’t allow me to shoot people on my property. The area i live in has high theft rate of Honda’s. I don’t want to buy another ignition or column.

[Nick Warner]

I see you not wanting to buy another ignition or column, but its likely what you will be left with. Nothing will defeat a determined pro at jacking cars. Nothing. But while Honda’s are good fare for a thief looking to strip them for parts, there isn’t a lot of money to be made in older ones. Chop shops look for newer cars so they can sell the parts to body shops that are fixing wrecks. Most people with cars that old aren’t going to the body shop after a wreck, they scrap the car. The insurance will total it out if its banged up as the value is too low. So you are left with the casual thief who is looking to joyride it or use it in a robbery. I can tell you that alarms don’t help much. People have become so used to them and irritated by them that they ignore them. I know there are ones out there that hook to a pager and I believe some of the pricey ones can even call your cell phone to tell you the alarm has been tripped. But then you might be getting woke up in the middle of the night when a squirrel is climbing on the car.

I would look for visual deterrents. Make them not want to bother smashing the column in the first place. Brightly colored and obvious immobilizers like a Club locked onto the steering column show that its going to be a hassle. Now there are certainly those out there who can get past it. But those people are also going for much newer cars that will give them more money for stealing it. I have also seen products which go on the brake and gas pedals. They are brightly colored and prevent the pedals from being pushed. If you can’t push in the brake you can’t take many cars out of park. Can’t push the gas you can’t drive off. By being in place, they show a potential thief that this car is a lot more hassle than it is worth. Only the really determined and professional ones will get past those and still take the car. Those are also the same ones who would target nothing older than a 2009 or so because there is less demand for the older stuff and less pay for the stripped parts.

I see what you want to do, but getting the above mentioned items along with a new column and ignition will keep your car in place. Another worthy approach would be to try to find or have made a steel collar with a very hardened lock that is hinged. It is made to go over your column and surround the ignition lock. It would have to be cut off first before a thief could even have a chance at getting to the ignition to smash it. Would be a relatively simple fabrication. If you cannot find something commercially available let me know. Maybe I can get ahold of the same car or a column for one out here in WI and build you one. I’ve spent plenty of time locked up with the people who do this stuff in the past. I know how they work. I could build you something that will make them not even want to bother breaking your window in the first place.

What you are trying to do will cost WWAAAAYYYY more money than you would spend putting the car back to factory and making them want to not bother trying to take it in the first place. You are talking about tech that is integrated into the BCM of newer cars and not compatible in the least with your car. Also even factory systems are usually not compatible with aftermarket alarms. You would be cutting into and tapping off of a wiring harness that should not be tampered with and would then still need a transponder and module with a logic program capable of operating like a factory installed system. Even those factory systems can be bypassed by someone who has the right technology with them to do it. There is no car that is unstealable.

I’m not trying to piss on your parade, I am trying to tell you that this is not a viable or cost effective option. Even if you got it done you would have paid out so much money it would be cheaper to just let the thing get jacked. You also would have a system that when it causes you issues with the BCM you will not find a single shop that will touch it. Once you Frankenstein it, its your baby. If you want, snap some pics of the column and PM me a phone number and address. I will see what I can do to locate a donor on my end for a template and weld up something that will make them walk away. If things are that bad in your area maybe I will patent it and you can sell it to all the other Honda owners out there.

[N]

Thanks again for the info Nick but I’ll pass.

[Gary]

Nick has offered some great suggestions, and I agree with him that what you are wanting to do with a push button ignition is risky, expensive and not worth the trouble. Now let me fill you in on some more viable solutions.

1. Fuel cutoff- You can do this many many ways such a manual valve inline with the fuel system, however since you have an electric pump, putting in a hidden fuel cutoff can do wonders. What you would need to do is splice into the fuel pump wire that energizes the pump. Add a hidden switch that only you know the location and flip it whenever you park the car. This will disable the fuel system.

2. Ignition killswitch- This works under the same principle as the fuel cutoff. Simple, cheap and effective.

3. Immobilizer- You can have these professionally fitted, or you can create your own immobilizer system. These can be quite sophisticated and all new cars have them.

With all due respect to Nick, the club is…well pro thieves know how to defeat it, they just cut the wheel. The brake pedal club is far more effective due to the fact hardened steel is mandated for the brake pedal shaft.

EDIT: Nick is correct, alarms are not really all that effective anymore people just see them as an annoyance and a pro thief can easily disable it. Every car has one nowadays so any effectiveness they once had, is gone.
On a side note, parking habits can help save your car. Alot of thieves nowdays use flatbeds and tow trucks to haul their prey away. This also renders an alarm ineffective as well as many other things. As said above, if a thief truly wants it, he will get it. The best practice is to set the parking brake, turn the wheels all the way to one side(even better if there is a curb around) and park near a solid object. If you have FWD like your honda park the front end near that object and rear wheel drive you’d back in with the rear near that object. When people tow, they want the drive axle off the ground.

[N]

You guys are missing the focus of my forum, doing this for security is just a bonus. I want to do a keyless push start ignition system, please either answer the question being asked. Other than that i don’t want to keep hearing about what i “could” or “should” do.

[Jesse]

[quote=”DJBLUEDIRTY” post=133981]You guys are missing the focus of my forum, doing this for security is just a bonus. I want to do a keyless push start ignition system, please either answer the question being asked. Other than that i don’t want to keep hearing about what i “could” or “should” do.[/quote]
Nick has already touched on the push button ignition dilemma. It’s going to be extremely difficult, and potentially extremely damaging to your vehicle. If you get somebody else to do it you’re most likely going to end up with a hack job, and very expensive bill, if you do it and you’re nothing but a backyard mechanic/weekend warrior you’re possibly going to do damage to your vehicle. Again, if anything goes wrong, this is YOUR problem.

You need to ask yourself “is a push button ignition worth all of this trouble?”. For me the answer is easy, NO! If this is your daily driver it’s not worth it, the potential for either a large repair bill, and potentially bricked vehicle is too high.

Just forget about it, I can guarantee that you will be unhappy with the results.

[N]

Again another person commenting with what i already know and don’t want to hear. Just answer the damn question or shut up. :side:

[Jesse]

[quote=”DJBLUEDIRTY” post=133996]Again another person commenting with what i already know and don’t want to hear. Just answer the damn question or shut up. :side:[/quote]
Many others in this thread have already detailed why there isn’t any detailed information. It’s difficult, very expensive, and potentially damaging. Because of these factors there aren’t many DIYers or Customers or Technicians doing these types of conversions. Let me ask you this; why do you want a push button start system? Are you just enamored by the idea? Do you think it would be an anti theft deterrent? Do you think it would make things more convenient for you? Do you think it will possibly save you money?

Let me ask you this; how much is this worth to you? I’m telling you right now that there aren’t many technicians willing to do this conversion, and if you find one you’re likely to be paying a pretty penny. If you think you can do it yourself let me ask you, what is your experience with doing your own repairs? Do you have any fabrication or electrical skills? This isn’t a simple DIY project.

[Gary]

I don’t believe anyone on this forum has done such a conversion because of the aforementioned. The allure of a push button start system eludes me, maybe I’m just not “trendy” enough. In all honesty, a Honda forum may have the answer you are looking for. A wrecked Honda S2000 with push button start would be where I would start the project if I was ever possessed to do this endeavor. I wouldn’t feel right giving any other advice on this matter, as it could easily become a major safety problem if you don’t know what your doing.

[Nick Warner]

You are really getting mad because in your own words you are not getting the answer you want? Wow, even my kids don’t act like that.

Here is the fact you don’t want to hear. If you want to have a Honda with a pushbutton start that works, take your ass to the dealer, trade off your thief busted 18 year old delusion of grandeur on four wheels that you currently have, and buy a new car that has pushbutton start.

Just because you don’t like an answer doesn’t mean it isn’t true. That’s the reality of the situation. Feel free to Frankenstein this thing as you feel. It is your car and you can do what you want. Just realize when this goes wrong, modules get fried or a fire starts in the wiring you will hope someone jacks it because it will only be worth scrap price. Or drive it unmolested as a usable car until you can afford something with a pushbutton. Small hint, since you live where Honda’s are targeted, you are bringing it on yourself if you buy another Honda. Do so and I would have as much sympathy for you as I would for a zookeeper who walks into a lion cage with a T-bone steak tied to their nuts.

Since logic, common sense and reason have no effect on someone who is just interested in being told what they want to hear I am now done with this thread. You notice that your identical thread in the tech section yielded exactly 0 replies and all the ones on this thread are telling you its a crap idea? Maybe that should be a hint you are living in a fantasy land.

[N]

Finally, you are willing to shut up and get off “my” thread. This is possible as i’ve said before, i don’t need to justify my reasoning for doing this anymore. Either give me information that will help me to get this done or keep your comments to yourselves. This is not a thread for arguing back and forth if i wanted to do this i would have posted on facebook. This website is suppose to be based on helping people accomplish their goals, not convincing them to just give up and buy a new car.

D

[EricTheCarGuy]

[quote=”DJBLUEDIRTY” post=134081]Finally, you are willing to shut up and get off “my” thread. This is possible as i’ve said before, i don’t need to justify my reasoning for doing this anymore. Either give me information that will help me to get this done or keep your comments to yourselves. This is not a thread for arguing back and forth if i wanted to do this i would have posted on facebook. This website is suppose to be based on helping people accomplish their goals, not convincing them to just give up and buy a new car.

D[/quote]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. After reading through this thread I don’t see any advice that was given that was malicious or bad natured. It seems that you’re reluctant to take advice from the members of the forum. That’s fine, but please don’t claim that they’re harassing you, as it seems to me that they’re only trying to help. If you don’t want to take their advice, that’s fine. It’s your car, you can choose to do with it what you wish.

If you wish to stop back at a later date and let us know how you worked it out, great. Otherwise, please don’t contact us unless you are actually being harassed.

Thanks for using the ETCG forum.

[Author]

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