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OK, so I am back! Thanks to all of the kindness here, and the kindness of a new friend, I completed the front struts on my 1989 Honda Accord LXI, 2.0 L FI, A20A3 Engine, 5-sp/MT, 4-dr sedan.
Last part of the process was to do an inspection of the suspension – so I watched several Eric “finding suspension problems” videos each a couple of times. Jacked the front end off the ground and tested various bits with the wheels on and off.
Here is what I found on the right side:
Yep! Looks like the ball joint on the Upper Control Arm (UCA) has some play in it! So it looks like that needs a fix.
Found a similar thing on the left tie rod end on the left side. (sorry batteries died – no video of that)
So now my questions:
1. What makes sense here on the UCA?
- I can buy a new ball joint and then have the fun of trying to press the old one out and the new one in? I guess there is a special tool for this? or
- I can buy a whole new Upper Control Arm that comes with the ball joint already installed.
I would buy the new UCA except for two things:
- It looks like the space to get to the mounting bolts is constricted by the strut spring. I might go mad if I had to remove the strut again!
- The UCA comes with the ball joint, but NOT the bolt and bushing for the mounting. A new UCA thus requires these new parts too.
Seems like more working parts is more opportunity for trouble? How should I think about this? How should it be approached?
2. Tie Rod End Seems like ball joint on the steering rod is called a “tie-rod end” and that comes as a unit rather than pulling the ball joint out. How much of a night mare is this repair? Looks like I’ll need a special tool to break this free from the knuckle. What are my chances of messing up the steering doing this?
3. Buying Parts – Too many choices! OK so I looked online for the parts. Sure, I can probably get parts from Honda, but those are the MOST expensive and budget is a concern. I guess if I was doing a Concurs style restoration, I’d buy the Honda parts. Since I’m not, I want to be economical. So it is maddening… I can buy a right front UCA with ball joints for $13.27 or as much as $59.79 (plus shipping).
The name brands are many and varied? Which brands are good reliable ones? Which ones tend to be the cut-rate (lower quality) ones? Here are the choices:
OMNI 5
MEVOTECH (claims to be “original grade!”)
DORMAN
MOOG
BECK/ARNLEY
ACDELCO (Huh? GM parts on a rice burner car?)
TRW
ACDELCO (claims to be “Professional” fwiw?)
RAYBESTOS (“Advanced Technology” Huh?)Thanks to anyone who can provide some insight? What lies ahead during the repair? How to find decent/economical parts?
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Moog and Dorman are brands that come through my shop regularly. I’ve never had a problem with them.
Are you replacing the tie rod end? If so, do not use the tie rod puller (“C” shaped device with a screw that pushes on the tie rod end). These will just bend the tie rod end and give you head aches.
You don’t really need a special tool for the tie rod. Loosen the castle nut and beat the crap out of the hub where it mounts. You need to hit it hard enough to send a ripple through the steel. It will break loose from that. When you take the tie rod end off of the tie rod; hold the tierod still and count how many turns it takes to get the tierod end off. Install the new one turning it the same number of times. This will keep the alignment pretty close to what it was. You WILL need to get an alignment done though.
As for the UCA: I would recommend changing out the entire arm. I have tried to press new ball joints in these arms and 50% of the time the arm bends and you have to buy the whole assembly anyway.
Where the heck did you find struts for that thing? My friend has a 1980 Accord and I couldn’t find struts anywhere. Not even Napa had them.[quote=”thisisbuod” post=136890]
Where the heck did you find struts for that thing? My friend has a 1980 Accord and I couldn’t find struts anywhere. Not even Napa had them.[/quote]Thank you for all of that insight on parts and doing the repairs! I’ll beat (carefully) on the tie rod end to break it free.
Will I need the special tool to break the UCA ball joint free from the knuckle?
Ah, parts! Now I’m no expert and only learned a few things from the University of Google. I have to wonder if there is a difference in “population” (number sold) between the First Generation (Gen 1 – 1976-81) of the Accord and Gen 3 (86-89) that effects parts availability? Seems like major parts are still fairly ubiquitous for my Gen 3 Accord. Had a mechanic once tell me I was lucky I had a FI engine as “most of the carbureted models didn’t last.” fwiw
Here is what I usually do, fwiw. I usually start with something like HondaPartsNow, BKHondaParts or one of the other online Honda parts dealers that pops up when Honda Parts are Googled. Getting the right part number helps me since I don’t know the proper names, then I plug that into search engines, Amazon and eBay. Mind boggling how many parts (and discounts) are available on eBay!
So for my Gen 3 Accord, I was able to find struts at Honda dealers, KYB.com (OEM maker?), Monroe, Rock Auto, CarID, CarPartsKing, PartsGeek, CarParts.com, JCWhitney and the big box stores (AZ, AA, NAPA). For the strut “experience” I snagged a pair of Gabriel G55742 Struts (claimed to be “OEM Ride”) off Rock Auto at a “private label close out” discount ($52/pair) No quick struts were found in the aftermarket, though I think one of the Honda dealers was advertising the “Assembly” at around $180 ea or 360/pair. (in retrospect after my ordeal, the expensive OEM quick struts might have been economical, especially if I had needed to hire $150 of labor to swap the springs)
Have not had to go this route yet but I think there are companies that buy out parts inventories from dealers after a few years (10?). The ones that look like they sell Honda parts are:
http://www.partstrain.com/Shopby/Make
http://www.vpartsinc.com/Also have had some success looking up parts at:
http://www.rearcounter.com/When that fails I head to the “recycle market” and have found Vince III here to be extremely helpful! Good old Midwestern helpfulness – kinda like Eric!
http://mandmautoparts.net/Not so much success with the online used part “request” sites, however. I have found I can get OEM used parts when I need body or non-critical mechanical parts through this route.
So that is all I know about buying parts for my two 20+ yo cars. Perhaps there are other sources/venders I am missing? Anybody able to add something?
Do not beat on the tie rod. You want to hit on the side of the hub where the tie rod sits. Sometimes you can do the same with the upper ball joint, but you might want to invest in a “pickle fork.”
Hey thank you! So you mean I should beat on the part of the knuckle where the tie rod end sits?
Will be my luck THAT is frozen up too! Then the pickle fork….. Hope AZ has one to loan?!
If not JB Tool….
http://www.jbtoolsales.com/otc-4559-2-set-pickle-fork-driver/That is where you hit. A dead blow hammer would be good for this cause you have to hit pretty hard. Make sure you loosen the castle nut first.
Hey- wanted to report back on my success with this repair! THANKS AGAIN to all who commented and helped!
I ended up replacing both Upper Control Arms (UCAs) and both tie-rod ends (TRE)!
A few notes.
A buddy suggested that I go inside the hood and remove the bolts that mount the UCAs to the car/frame. Boy was this great advice! It would have been murder to try to get the long bolt out of the back of the UCA since the head was practically hidden behind the strut spring. Also, I bought the complete MOOG “problem solver” bushing set for the UCA. I guess one might have been able to drive the bushings out of the old UCA, I tried (for fun & games) and wasn’t able to do it without damaging the bushings. So it looks like a bushing set is the way to go here!
The advice here on where to beat on things (The knuckle where the ball joint goes through) was great advice and worked like a charm! THANKS! Also I used a liberal amount of grease on the bushing, seals, etc when reassembling the UCAs. The only “hard part was the disassembly required under the hood – to move things enough to get to the UCA mounting bolts.
On the tie-rod ends, for me the crux was getting the back-up nut loose. When regular wrenches and PB Blaster failed to get it to more, I applied some heat! (Yeah, the Big Red Wrench) I have upgraded from a propane torch to MAP gas. Still didn’t get things cherry red, but got enough heat to be able to break it open. I think in the process I liquified some of the grease in the TRE ball joint. Since I was replacing the TRE, it didn’t seem an issue. Liberal amounts of never-seize will hopefully make sure this isn’t an issue in the future.
Oh and I bought the TREs that have grease fittings on them. Yeah, I remember the pain of going around on the old ’63 Impala to grease the joints every time I changed the oil. But I have had a BUNCH of ball joints on this car so figured I try something new that might last a bit longer with proper maintenance.
On both the TREs and UCAs another “fun” bit was removal of the cotter pins before the castle nuts. Gotta love such small bits of metal in that environment! Seems designed to rust and get stuck! Had to chase those out with a punch. Me wonders if an application of some lock-tite on the threads might be a wise substitute?
Oh and lastly, I went over board on one side making it “pretty!” Cleared the new UCA ad went wild with POR 15 gloss black on the Knuckle & TRE! I’ll get a picture up one day soon!
Thanks again to all of the kind help here! I am humbled, grateful & indebted!
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