Please Help! Middle of T-Belt Change

[B]

I really need some help here everyone. I am in the middle of changing out my timing belt for my 2004 Honda Pilot. All was going well and I was at the point where I was about to rotate the crank to line everything up and mark the old belt. I put the crank bolt back on and begin to turn clockwise when I realized I didn’t put the crank key (woodruff key?) back in. So basically I am spinning the crank without rotating the rest of the top end? I stop in horror but realize that the crank and the T belt cog are close to lining up on the key hole….but not quite. So I either A. really didn’t spin it much at all and I am ok, or B. spun it an entire revolution. I know it would not have been more than that but how do I know what I did? And… how do I get this dang crank bolt off without spinning the crank so I can put the key back in? Thank You for any help!

Topic

[Bill Holt]

I had a more detailed reply, but the damned system took me off the page when I tried to scroll up, so I lost it all. :angry: No time now to recapitulate. Check out this forum — http://www.piloteers.org/forums/69-2003-2008-pilot/29329-removing-crankshaft-bolt.html

YouTube has some good videos. I saw a search result for your bolt removal issue, uploaded by some guy named Alexy. I think Gravilov or some such thing is his last name. If your timing belt never came off, the timing points should be the same. My Civic has marks on the cam pulley indicating ‘UP’ and points at due right, left, and down to identify piston position. See if the Pilot is similar. Be careful with clockwise rotation if your engine is mounted with belts on the left, or driver’s side. Many Hondas have this design and are counter-clockwise in rotation, so the ‘starter bump’ bolt loosening method doesn’t work on them and can be dangerous because it would attempt to tighten the bolt. There’s a special removal tool to fit the hexagonal recess which I believe the Pilot’s crank pulley has. Get imaginative if you can’t get the tool in time. 😉 I’d also caution against much clockwise rotation with the timing belt on if the Pilot’s engine is indeed one with a counter-clockwise configuration. I hope this is accurate and helpful input. Hopefully someone with truly authoratative information will chime in in a timely manner. Gotta go. Make it happen! Peace! 🙂

[B]

Thank you for your response I appreciate it. I should mention that I’m actually almost halfway done and I’m ready to take the old belt off. I already did the initial crankshaft bolt removal along with the crank pulley which was hard. I took the covers off and all the accessories I need to get to it. I know for sure by watching other videos that it is a clockwise rotation. My problem is that there comes a point where you put the crank bolt it back on to spin everything and line up all the marks so you can properly mark your your old belt before you take it off. Since I did not put the key back in the crank, I was rotating the crank without rotating the the timing belt along with it ….. does that make sense?

[Rick Cropper]

It’s hard to say what exactly happened since you aren’t sure but start by backing off all your rockers so you don’t strike a valve. Then line up everything. Counter balance shafts too. If it’s due for a timing belt then it’s probably due for a valve adjust anyway. If it’s hydraulic just unbolt the rocker assembly or camshaft instead. Unload the valves till you have things back in alignment.

Rick

[B]

First, I have to get this bolt off, then put the key back in. Once I do that I will rotate everything slowly.  If there is an issue, should I feel a bind?  If I feel a bind, would it damage anything?

[Bill Holt]

Once again, I’m no pro, but here’s my additional 2¢.:

— If you feel a ‘bind’ it’s probably from the compression you’re building by turning the engine, which exists even when rotating everything by hand. You’d feel a ‘release’ as the pistons pass Top Dead Center, or ‘TDC’. When being turned by hand, an engine that has enough power and compression to run at thousands of RPMs and move a 3,000 lb. car down the road at high speed will feel ‘tight’ as you get pistons up to TDC. Loosen all of your spark plugs and compression won’t be a hindrance.

— To my knowledge there is no need to mark your old timing belt, unless you’re using a shortcut method for changing it — which could be an easy way to miss a cam tooth or two and have an engine that runs horribly if at all, resulting in a whole lot of @^%##$*&^!! after you’ve reassembled everything. I think that’s essentially what happened when I had a guy replace my head gasket, only to have a SUPER-crappy-running car right out of the shop. Your timing belt is the proverbial glue that holds everything together. As critical as it is, it’s really rather generic — until it breaks, jumps teeth, or gets tensioned over misaligned pulleys. :pinch: Use your timing marks. It sounds like you’re understandably a bit intimidated, which has you counting on using your old belt as a guide. If you make shared marks on the old belt and each pulley at one tooth and groove junction on each rotating part, that should work, assuming the engine runs well now. You have to count belt teeth between points of reference with this method, or you could have a belt that’s offset from the start, and an engine with timing that’s way off. My non-pro opinion is again to set your timing marks absent the belt. Your belt should go on AFTER your assurance that all of your timing mark alignments have been made properly. I made my adjustments with the belt off, as I had to slightly jerry-rig my timing belt pulley and crank pulley after dimming lights and a fluttering battery icon in the dash cluster led me to discover a loose crank bolt, a wobbling pulley that I could effortlessly spin by hand, and the delightful surprise of a missing key. Provided you have the correct part, your new timing belt is just a clone of the old one. Your timing and cam pulleys don’t care where any of the belt’s indistinguishably similar teeth are — but your engine and computer care a whole lot about where all of the mechanical components are relative to one another. 🙂 The only mark I put on my timing belt was one dot on the side, which I mirrored on the cam pulley with another dot, both of them three teeth out from the point of cam and belt engagement near the top of the cam pulley. This was for tensioning purposes. The crank pulley is held in place while the camshaft is rotated the span of those three teeth, then the tensioner is allowed to settle into place and its tightening bolt is torqued down. The freewheeling of the system, so to speak, that you’re concerned about should be done after the new belt is on. Per service manual instructions, I gave mine a few gentle full rotations to make sure that the belt wasn’t walking off of the cam and that the timing marks remained aligned. Again, a ’95 Civic LX is a cousin of the ’04 Pilot, not its twin.

— With a clockwise-rotating engine you could use the ‘starter bump’ to easily loosen the crank bolt. Snugly fit your ratchet on the bolt and get the handle to SECURELY rest against the frame up and behind the engine, or fit it with a cheater extension wedged under the jack stand you had better be using on that side. B) An anvil, no joking, would work. Ha! Some people just brace the handle against the floor in front of the car. The point is to oppose the direction of rotation of the engine. This only works with clockwise-turning crankshafts, which is why I mentioned engine rotation direction earlier. Once the wrench is tightly set up, give the ignition a literal pulse — just enough to engage the starter for a split second. Don’t start the car. The formidable torque of the starter motor should make light work of your crank bolt. 😉 Not for nothing, if you have the bolt in so tightly that you can’t muscle it back out, I highly doubt that anything ‘slipped’ when you made your initial spin of the whole shebang. If your marks were accurate, they should still be. However, you will be putting the woodruff key in, so it can’t hurt to check or even re-do everything. I err on the side of caution. As the old carpenter’s adage goes, “Measure twice, cut once.”

— If the Pilot doesn’t need to roll every day to take care of business, put the timing belt project on hold and get an OEM service manual from Honda. No offense to the likes of Haynes or Chilton, but if you like your Pilot enough to do your own work on it, splurge for a factory-authorized manual. Your Pilot’s owner’s manual may have ordering information inside the back cover. Helm used to print Honda’s manuals. They may still. Online Honda parts sellers may have them. I highly recommend Honda Parts Unlimited, which is the online presence for Bell Honda in Phoenix. They’ve been great to me. Just sayin’. B) I’m sure eBay would yield some results, and there are some legit manuals that people have painstakingly uploaded to the Internet, too.

I applaud your determined effort. All the best to ya, and I hope I’ve at least given you some useful direction, or at least a boost of inspiration. 🙂

Peace,
Bill

[B]

Bill, Thanks for the very detailed response. I have been thinking about it all day and I just couldn’t imagine that I would spin the crank very far without noticing something. The first thing I did is figure a way to get that crank bolt off and I just decided to try an impact, worked like a champ. I put the key in and very slowly turned the engine looking for any interference other than compression strokes and it seemed to be fine and I rolled it over probably six times to be very sure. I was able to put the timing belt on and all marks line up just fine. The one problem…. I forgot to put the oil dipstick tube back in before I dumped coolant all over it from the water pump, so I’m sure the crankcase has some coolant inside of it. I forgot to do this because the video I’m watching is from a later model where there is no oil dipstick tube. So now I need to dump some oil. Other than that, I think I’m ok. Thanks again

[Bill Holt]

Cool. Not about the coolant, but it sounds like you’ve got things squared away. 🙂

[Author]

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