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Okay, so I know this is a bit of a noobish question, but I have next to no experience when it comes to differentials. Let me give you some background. Basically, my car was making a lot of noise in the rear and it sounded a LOT like a wheel bearing. It even made the characteristic noise when turning on the side with the bad wheel. When I would make left turns the noise would get worse. If I put loads in the trunk (or people in the back seat) the noise would get worse. When driving in straight lines, the noise would be a soft “whoooooooooooooooooo” noise that increased/decreased in intensity with speed.
So long story short, I bought one thousand dollars worth of OEM lexus parts to fix my rear wheel bearing (replacing both left and right rear just for good measure.
So I go to take stuff apart, and while I am there I find out that it looks like the axles are shot and that it may have been the cv axles that were making the noise in the first place and NOT the wheel bearings.Opps… So okay, I go out and buy two rebuilt A-1 cardone units and go to take my old axles out. Guess what, they were stuck. :angry:
So I take the ENTIRE rear differential out in order to separate them…. and low and behold, when I spin the differential I hear the dreaded noise!!!!!! :ohmy:
Here is a video of the noise::
http://youtu.be/AbP3NpYB3J4?list=UUUz9sd-x7hiMkXA051e_CmQ
Video with fluid still in the Diff:
So here is my question:
I know NOTHING about differentials. Is this differential shot!?
I made a post explaining in GRAVE detail my issues on the Lexus forum that i belong to but NO ONE on that forum seems capable of helping or they are too busy so I figured I would give etcg a chance. Maybe you guys know a bit more about differentials, I hope!
Also, here is the original video of the noise with everything on the car.
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I am starting to think that NO ONE has any clue about differentials pretty much anywhere. … I guess I should just go to the junk yard and pick out a new one and just keep my old one out so that I can rebuild it myself over the course of time as the money becomes available. 🙁
I’ll just keep this one around and over time I will collect the parts necessary to swap the internals and make it an LSD.
… ohh well, junk yard here I come!!
You can use this wheel bearing test.The other link is for noises.
That diff does not sound good.http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/diagnosing-noises-in-your-car?start=6#WheelBearingNoises
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/diagnosing-noises-in-your-car
One thing you learn about Lexus forums is – they don’t much DIY. They go to dealership. I quit asking them questions long ago. They got wallets.
What you hear – and this is my pure speculation – depends on what diff you have. Some have locking differentials with clutches and what not. SO you may start with doing research on that, and if you find out that Lexus put a whole lot of over engineered gismos inside, then sure, that’s normal.
But either way, good starting point is to replace that fluid with very expensive, but very good Amsoil oil.Sounds like you have limited slip diff, possibly electronically controlled, and that noise is simple mechanical response to hand spin. But it’s my wild guess. Call dealer and find out.
Yep, you’re spot on about the deep wallets thing. …. unfortunately, I am NOT one of the guys with a deep wallet. Mine is VERY VERY shallow! lol It’s unbelievable, its almost like NO ONE wanted to help me over there. …This forum at least seems a little more welcoming. (and less snobby)
Thanks for the advice so far guys. The differential is actually an open diff and is not a limited slip. I called up some junk yards earlier today and we’ll see what the prices are going to be like.
As for the electronic gizmos, this one has nothing fancy attached to the Diff. No sensors or anything like that thankfully.
Not normal. In your video you were not turning the ring and pinion and yet the noise occurred. All you were turning were the six bevel gears inside the differential housing. To make that noise I expect teeth are missing or chewed up on the gears.
I never worked on a Lexus but I expect the way it comes apart is by pulling the differential housing, removing the ring gear and cover and then the entire inside assembly can be pulled out.
With the differential on the ground you have done all the hard work and adjusting the ring and pinion mesh is kinda tricky. So, I’d suggest to take it to a shop that does this kind of work and then you can pop it back in.
The first video definitely sounds like a worn wheel bearing. The diff noise might be normal as under normal driving conditions the gears are not loaded in that way. If you can’t hear the noise by turning the pinion while holding each axle flange then I don’t believe there is a problem.
I am liking the sound of this advice. It’s exactly what I need. I’ve been searching the internet far and low to see if I can see videos of people spinning their differentials for comparison. I guess it is not as common as funny cat videos! 😛
Yeah, I mean at this point I already have all of the material for doing the rear wheel bearing and am in the process of fixing it already.
(please note, when I say “fixing it” that does not imply that the wheel bearing is in fact broken. I am still not 100% sure. Spinning the wheel by hand with the differential still in the car allowed me to hear the noise, but now that the diff is out the axles are also out which means there is no load on the wheel bearing (the axle nut is off) so spinning the suspect wheel produces no noise. This does not necessarily mean my wheel bearing is good though. (because of no pre-load on the bearing))
… if only I could talk to a real differential expert. I put my diff in the trunk of my working vehicle earlier today and went over to the local transmission shop. The guy I spoke to at the local shop honestly did not seem all too interested in providing me with advice. It seem like he just wanted my money. He said, “if it makes noise, it’s probably boke” – very helpful! :silly:
Yeah…It’s really hard to diagnose without actually being there to look inside. I can tell you that those side gears and spider gears mostly spin while making turns and not driving straight.
VERY interesting. If that is the case, then at least it gives hope to the fact that the differential is okay. I was getting prominent noise while driving straight OR turning so maybe it is the wheel bearing after all. I will take an in-depth look at the differential tomorrow without taking any of the internals apart and see if I can spot any broken teeth. I will also take a closer look at the passenger side wheel bearing and hub assembly. Today after work I was working on the driver side. I checked the hub runout and end play with a dial indicator and it was within spec even with the axle nut removed. (less than 2 thousandths of an inch) so I will to the same for the suspect wheel tomorrow.
I can tell you for a fact that when the vehicle was completely together, before I started this process, I moved the passenger wheel side to side and there WAS some slight side to side movement (horizontal left to right moment) along with slight up and down movement. On the drivers side (the non suspect wheel) there was absolutely NO movement.
We will see what tomorrow holds…
Thank you VERY much for all the worth while advice so far! B)
There seems to be a few real mechanics on this forum!
Wysetech is correct, no matter how noisy the differential gears are, when driving straight they are not moving. However, I’ve never heard any that noisy before. Its like somebody drove 50K with two different wheel sizes.
So, just wondering, is there a magnet inside? If so what did you find on it?
So after even further investigation today I think I may have nailed it down to a bad wheel bearing. banana: banana: banana: The only thing is, that differential noise does NOT sound good and the metal flakes in the oil have me a bit concerned. As for the differential magnet,it had just a seemingly normal amount of metal on it. A very very small amount. Personally I would find this normal for a car that has 185,000 miles!!! I have a FULL 10 page Lexus service history report and the diff oil was never changed (at least not at any Lexus dealers.
The small metal flakes in the drained diff oil were far and few between although they WERE there. So that has me worried.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzITlbPQVFw&feature=youtu.be
What do you guys think? Is that wheel bearing shot? Should I just throw the new OEM bearings on and put the diff back in to see what happens?
I’d say bad wheel bearing. The one on the other side doesn’t sound so hot either.
As for the magnet, fluffy stuff is normal, chunk style material is cause for alarm.
[quote=”barneyb” post=107086]I’d say bad wheel bearing. The one on the other side doesn’t sound so hot either.
As for the magnet, fluffy stuff is normal, chunk style material is cause for alarm.[/quote]
No chunks in the differential fluid. I spoke with a one of my father’s good friends who is an excellent mechanic (Big shout out to Youri!). He said that small silver flakes in the fluid is actually a bit normal. As long as there is not a lot of them and as long as they are very small, then it is probably a non-issue. He also said that the noise is most likely NOT normal for the differential and referred me to an excellent differential specialist who re-geared a diff for one of his cars.
I took a very close look at every tooth of the ring and spider gears and found nothing abnormal. After the call I also went back and spun the pinion by hand and when I did this, the differential noise did not occur. I am feeling hopeful that the noise is just due to the fact that everything has been taken apart.
At this point I am going to simply try my luck at replacing these wheel bearings then reinstalling the differential, filling with proper viscosity fluid, and seeing how things go. If worse comes to worst it won’t be nearly as difficult to remove the differential a second time. The axle shafts will not be fused with rust to the diff since the axles will be new (rebuilt), so removing the diff a second time will be a (less than) two hour affair. Three mounting bolts and the diff basically pops out. Thanks to all for all the invaluable opinions and assistance.
Wish me luck!!… I will follow up with results when everything is said and done.
well, here’s my take. if i already had the rear end of my car apart and was over a grand into brand new parts in the rear of a car that is known for going 200,300k miles reliably i would go ahead and change the diff too. already got the axles, the wheel bearings, that differential is definitely not normal sounding to me and hell even if it was i think while i was in there i’d just try and find the part anyways. If you plan to keep the car for a while i vote for finding a diff in good shape or a new one, re-installing the whole thing, axles, bearings, etc and enjoying for the next 150k. I couldn’t track down an issue with an oil leak in my 1992 celica 2.2L so before i was too far in on changing gaskets and things i threw in the towel and i’m having someone look at it to gun down the issue. Depending on what it is i might DIY or have him do it. At least until i build experience up that will be the most cost effective way. Good luck, LS’s rock btw.
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