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Hello everyone!
So a while ago I posted a similar thread, but about a different vehicle.
I was suffering from intermittent pinging. Eric had this to say back then:
“I’ve been thinking about this a given that you’re in Australia I’m guessing you’re in a pretty hot climate which means that you probably run the aircon a lot. This might create a condition in which the engine is too hot and therefore can detonate or preignite, I’m wondering how you could combat this because if you put in a cooler thermostat you will offset the fuel mix perhaps enough to cause performance problems and compromise fuel economy, perhaps you could find a radiator with a larger core which might be able to cool more efficiently than the one that you have. ”
Now, that particular car turned into a major lemon and I ended up letting it go. Sadly unlike some of you fortunate fellas in the US there are no lemon laws here to protect people. Ford screwed me over hard.
I am currently driving another car. It’s a ’12 Hyundai i30 (I think they call them the elantra touring or something different over there). This particular one uses the beta II 2.0L if anyone is familiar with them
The only trouble I have had with this car in 9000km is that it pings when the weather is hot (which is often down here, especially at this time of year.)
Hyundai specifies 95RON fuel as providing the best performance, but the dealers say the cars can stomach 91 also (which is our minimum). I notice a few new hyundais ping in the hot weather (hell so do most cars here) and I have always run my cars on premium so this has lived on a diet thus far of 95RON and, occasionally 98
It pings a little on 95, especially if the air con is on.
I have tried 98 as I said, which generally stops the pinging. However I don’t see why my little hyundai should need the really expensive stuff (95 alone is commonly $1.60 a litre here…)
It pings angrily on 91.
The weather is nuts in Melbourne, one day it will be cold, the next hot and humid, then we will have a thunderstorm, then it will be cold and dry again. The past two days have been very hot and humid, and as Eric guessed I run the aircon a fair bit.
Yesterday it was pinging quite noticeably, so I tried adjusting the throttle position sensor. I had read a lot of motorbike owners adjust theirs to stop pinging. I was not sure what factory specs are for the one on my car, it read 0.2 volts at idle and 8.3 or something at WOT. I adjusted it to 0.3 and idle and something more like 8.7 at WOT.
I believe the theory is that slightly higher voltage will mean a tiny bit more fuel is used, which should help reduce preignition.
Well, it did bugger all as far as I can tell. Perhaps it pings a little bit less, but it’s still there when the car gets hot.
Speaking of temperature, the gauge never moves past halfway. It sits there no matter what the weather is like. I am running the factory spark plugs.
I will pull them and have a look later, just in case one is buggered.
The car has had an oil change but no other work yet, I don’t know what else to tell you. If you guys can think of anything to try or any potential causes that aren’t the fuel used, please help me out.
Before you ask, I have contacted hyundai. A service manager is a mutual friend so he doesn’t bullshit me. He told me the 1.6 engines ping here commonly and there is a reflash for it. But not so on the 2.0L as it is far less common. The most they could offer is a test drive to assess the severity
Thank you all!
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Not like the old days when you had direct control of engine performance. The PCM has control over the entire process. The trade off between power and efficiency applies as well to the quality of the petrol being used. If the computer were re-flashed, it could be adjusted to perform on the lower quality fuel at the expense of power. Not sure who would have the skills and equipment to make the change.
so it does not ping on 98 correct? i would run that or maybe mix it with 95 until you find a ratio that it does not ping on. does it ping on mid grade without the ac? you could do that but it would be awefully hot! im not sure if you know this but the octane rating is the resistance of that grade gasoline to preignite (pinging) so the higher rating, the more resistance to pinging there is.
Hyundai told me they can alter the tune on the 1.6 engine only.
I could go to an aftermarket tuning place but that might be costly, and even if they make my engine run happier it will probably be grounds to void my warranty on the engine.
I am well familiar with fuel octane, I fly a plane B)
I was trying to point out that fuel here is very expensive. The 98 in particular is usually around AUD$1.70 per litre. I shouldn’t have to buy it especially seeing as Hyundai claim the car can run on 91RON.
I am happy to buy 95 as a trade off since I did so for my past cars, but it still pings on 95, especially with the aircon on. Yes, it would be very hot at times without it!
what octane does it say in the owners manual? does it matter on the supplier you get the gas from as to the pinging? there could be something wrong with the supply but i would think selling the incorrect octane would be illegal
[quote=”outdoorsman310″ post=36011]what octane does it say in the owners manual? does it matter on the supplier you get the gas from as to the pinging? there could be something wrong with the supply but i would think selling the incorrect octane would be illegal[/quote]
it says 91 minimum but max performance on 95
I believe it is like my pevious car, intended for 95 but relies on a knock sensor to run 91. Dealers will tell you everything takes 91 here just to sell it, even if it isn;t the case.
I have had trouble with particular petrol stations before where the fuel has been bad.
It technically would be illegal but who is realy going to check? I had trouble trying to get a shell servo to check out a broken pump. They probably put the wrong fuel in the wrong tanks all the time.
I don’t believe the TPS has anything to do with it. As I said in my last response if the combustion chamber gets too hot then the engine will ping. I think you either need to upgrade the cooling system with a larger radiator as I suggested or find some way to cool the incoming air into the engine. To be honest I’m not sure how you’d do this. You can try running higher octane fuel which might help a little but the real issue is the hot air the engine is ingesting.
+1 the only thing i can think of is if the engine is getting more fuel, it would be getting cooled a little more by the gasoline.
I had thought about making a heat shield for my airbox and part of the intake scoop.
The higher octane fuel is very expensive here and I’d like to try other things before falling back on using it all the time.
There are no shortage of cooling system specialists here so I might go and visit one.
In the mean time, I have heard spark plug heat rating and improper gaps can cause pinging. If I pull mine and they look like they ahve run too hot I might try slightly colder ones.
Perhaps then if the plugs are causing the pinging they will stay cool enough on regular fuel or 95 for it not to happen.
I was wondering Eric generally how fast does carbon build up in an engine, enough to cause preignition, affect compression, cause hot spots etc. My car now has nearly 9 and a half thousand kilometers and I didn’t think it would be a problem for a long time yet but just wondering.
Thanks everyone
same principle as we use in aircraft engines. We lean them in a cruise so the plugs don’t foul, and run them rich when power is needed to keep them cool and not to cause detonation. In most planes we have the luxury of cowl flaps and mucking with airflow through the engine bay, I can’t do that in my car to cool it off sadly 😛
I don’t think the issue has anything to do with carbon buildup. It’s too much heat that is the issue. A slightly richer mix as suggested MIGHT be helpful but I’m not sure how you would accomplish that. I think upgrading the cooling system is really your only option.
I suppose a trip to a cooling system shop it is then!
I’m thinking the only way to muck with my mixture is to have the car tuned somewhere, not for power but just to run better, but that’s last resort. There are heaps of places around here that build engines and dyno tune vehicles and are good at fine tuning EFI cars.
I have some time tomorrow and I will have a good look at my spark plugs and check their gaps anyway
If I manage to have the cooling system upgraded or I can fix it some other way I will let you guys know, thanks for your help!
So I replaced the plugs today
I bought the cheapy NGKs because they come pregapped. (I didn’t want to shell out for iridiums if the car doesn’t need them). I went one grade cooler than specified. Turned out that was a pain in the arse, only one store in my state had more than just one plug of that type in stock
anyway I’m new to reading plugs. I have attached photos of my old plugs here for people to look at. If the pics aren’t clear enough, there is white on each of the grounding tips, two of the four had slight white speckly buildup on these and also black specks on the insulator, the metal bits also looked ever so slightly worn. Bear in mind there is only about 10,000 km on these plugs.
At first they looked normal but I’m starting to think some of the signs confirm they were running a little bit too hot and were subject to preignition
In the mean time I have driven my car most of the evening, and although it was a cooler day today it seemed happier to rev and there was absolutely no pinging. I will wait for a very hot day to make a real judgement.
Perhaps this is just a bandaid solution though, and knowing my luck it probably is. If it begins to ping again on a hot day I will either take it to hyundai or have the car looked at at a tuning specialist.
I will pull my new plugs and inspect them in a thousand ks or so to make sure they aren’t fouling (in case the cooler heat rating was the wrong decision and I’m getting carbon build up)
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