P0171 and P1297

[sjrobinson]

So, the first code means I’m running lean. The second is a honda code: Electrical Load Detector Circuit Low Input
and I cant quite find what it means. I’ve found that it happens on OBD1- which isnt right, my cars an OBD2.

I’m wondering if theres an issue with my MAP sensor. I recently did an intake manifold swap to a 6th gen accord manifold on my 97 accord- its a relatively common swap that provides more HP and doesn’t do any damage. But I’m wondering if I could just have a leak or an issue with that?

I’ve also had discussions on the IAR Valve. Most say to plug it. Would that affect the fuel mixture?

BTW that surging issue I had that some of you may have seen has been fixed from the manifold swap. I cleaned off the IAC and put a clean manifold in. Idling and surging issues went away.

Topic

[college man]

running lean. I would search for vacuum leaks. seeing seeing you just
did a manifold swap.I would not plug the IAR valve. that could also
be a vacuum leak source.the P1297 I would check your battery cables
and battery terminals are clean and tight. also check all your grounds.
check your alternator terminals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CPqbaSgcok&list=PL968D5AF70B82EC06&index=6&feature=plpp_video vac leaks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuumBVz6WOM&list=PLC3D53EBD790DDA9C&index=3&feature=plpp_video charging system

[dreamer2355]

+1 on the above post.

Here is also a video by Briansmobile1 on a P1298 that may yield some info for you –

[sjrobinson]

I wasnt sure if the info on the p1298 would apply exactly but ill look at it.
As far as vacuum leaks I have been checking since I did the swap. I’ve got it down to none but I do wanna take off the upper manifold and reseal the IACV with silicone since the swap require a retrofit. However the idle is pretty good except it takes a second to go from 1000 to 750 rpm after rev’ing it.

I did a map sensor voltage reading. The ground is giving me a low voltage. It should read 5 volts under the test that the haynes manual showed (unplugged but ignition on). and when I test the signal wire, it does not change with the throttle when its plugged in and on. it just remains anywhere from .8 to 1 volt. So I think there may be an issue with the wires there or even the map sensor itself.

Finally (it seems like whenever I have an issue with my car there are many symptoms 😛 )
The upstream o2 sensor. I occasionally read 0 volts when driving for a good few seconds. Thats abnormal. I think it may be shorting or loose. Or it could be that the map sensor wires are causing inconsistent readings which cause the engine to sometimes run lean which gives a 0 volt reading.

Ima check for a ground I detatched during the swap. That ground connected to the upper manifold, could that cause an issue? like a p1297 (for those who know bout f series)

[Matt]

[quote=”sjrobinson” post=30927]I wasnt sure if the info on the p1298 would apply exactly but ill look at it.
As far as vacuum leaks I have been checking since I did the swap. I’ve got it down to none but I do wanna take off the upper manifold and reseal the IACV with silicone since the swap require a retrofit. However the idle is pretty good except it takes a second to go from 1000 to 750 rpm after rev’ing it.

I did a map sensor voltage reading. The ground is giving me a low voltage. It should read 5 volts under the test that the haynes manual showed (unplugged but ignition on). and when I test the signal wire, it does not change with the throttle when its plugged in and on. it just remains anywhere from .8 to 1 volt. So I think there may be an issue with the wires there or even the map sensor itself.

Finally (it seems like whenever I have an issue with my car there are many symptoms 😛 )
The upstream o2 sensor. I occasionally read 0 volts when driving for a good few seconds. Thats abnormal. I think it may be shorting or loose. Or it could be that the map sensor wires are causing inconsistent readings which cause the engine to sometimes run lean which gives a 0 volt reading.

Ima check for a ground I detatched during the swap. That ground connected to the upper manifold, could that cause an issue? like a p1297 (for those who know bout f series)[/quote]

The MAP should read about 1.ish volts at idle, and should rise with RPMs (if I remember right, I get some sensors backards), as I suspect you know. You could pull the vacuum supply line and put a vacuum pump on the sensor and see if you get a reading that changes as you apply vacuum (key on engine off). If it changes, inspect the vacuum supply line to see if it’s leaking/cracked etc. Also, what do you mean by the ground wire giving you low voltage? You should see less the .2v on a voltage drop at a sensor ground, or over any connection for that matter, and that’s being generous.

Anyway, that and a possible o2 ground wire could cause sputtering or idle issues if the car doesn’t know how much air is going in and is misreading the output emissions. Good luck.

[sjrobinson]

There arent really definite issues with the idle. Just that it may take a second to go back to idle.

The test I did was in my haynes manual. It said that the ground and what ever is the other wire thats not a signal wire should read 5 volts when its unplugged but the ignition is on. My ground read .2. Then when plugging it back in and turning on the car the signal wire should have decreased in voltage as I rev’d the car. It did not exactly- maybe by .05 volts if anything. But it wasn’t very consistent or noticeable.

Im going to a junk yard to grab a new connector with the wires and solder them on and maybe try a new map sensor. Ill also check the o2 sensor.

But can these issues cause a p1297?

[EricTheCarGuy]

I would leave the MAP sensor out of it. Honda MAP sensors hardly ever have a problem but perhaps there is an issue with the wiring or connector. Besides your codes have nothing to do with the MAP sensor anyway. Follow the evidence, not your gut.

Please don’t use RTV on the IAC valve, that’s probably one of the most unprofessional things you can do. Not to mention you could clog it up and RTV can ruin O2 sensors.

An O2 sensor SHOULD read 0v from time to time, here is a video explaining how they work. I’m pretty sure your code has nothing to do with the O2 sensor but it MIGHT have something to do with your new intake. If the computer is expecting to see base readings for your old intake and it’s seeing different readings for your new one then perhaps that’s why it’s setting that code. It’s also possible you have a vacuum leak you haven’t found yet OR you don’t have enough fuel going in to match the air coming in.

As for the ELD they do have issues from time to time, I think the video posted about the ELD is a good place to start. Don’t forget to check your battery and connections.

[sjrobinson]

RTV is silicone? Im a bit confused as to how it could if most recommendations are to use it to seal gaskets. The silicone doesnt seem to be going anywhere. How is it bad?

And I found oil on the connection of the o2 sensor and I think that may have caused an issue. I redid the MAP sensor connection and the readings are a little better now except the ground did not match how the haynes manual said it should.

I was wondering about the new intake, however, speaking to someone who has done the mod he has not had any issues with it. No CELs or anything- which is why I went ahead and did it.

I’m thinking I dont have enough fuel going in. These mods are freeing up the air flow in my car and I gotta put a little back pressure in my car… I’m still trying to understand the science and then get everything right behind all this.

But suppose my car is getting more air than fuel than it should. What else do I do? I’m still trying to experiment with this car too.

[dreamer2355]

If you think that is the case, you would need a higher volume fuel pump as well some equipment to see what your stoichometric ratio’s are.

RTV has it uses but has its own place too. You can use RTV as a substitute to using per se a paper gasket on certain ares’s of the engine.

I would invest in a FSM manual for your vehicle to help you with those trouble codes.

However, once you start to ‘mod’ engines, you are usually on your own.

[sjrobinson]

I have both a Haynes manual and the manual that came with the car. FSM… factory service manual… is that different?

But as far as the mods go, all these are basic mods that are not so far out of the ECU’s ability to adapt. And it has, the mods have proven not to be the issues with my car time and time again. Its usually something simple or stupid that ends up being my own error or just a repair cuz the car is old.

As references I am on other forums and do research on the mods. Other people with the same or similar cars also share what they find and know.

The p0171 stumps me cuz my MPGs around the city are rather low. But someone can explain, it may make perfect sense.

As for the p1297- I can only find info on a p1298. But could it be a wiring issue? Maybe my battery cables need to be tighter to the terminals or that oil in between the o2 sensor could have been messing with the connection? I dont know what a p1297 exactly involves which was part of my question.

I did go through and fix up everything that could be fixed up and reset the CEL. Now I’m waiting to see if it comes on again. Its been only two days of driving though. If it comes back on I will check the ELD and scan the exhaust for leaks.

[dreamer2355]

FSM’s are the holy grail as you have it for your vehicle. Haynes manuals are a waste of time in my opinion and only scratch the bare surface of your vehicle.

Here is a video that Eric produced –

[sjrobinson]

Oh, great. Ill definitely be buying one of these.

[college man]

You can’t go wrong getting the FSM.
Try ebay

[sjrobinson]

I go back to reference the advice and half the conversation is gone…

So I wanna know if a timing of 10 degrees when under the same circumstances it is usually 15 degrees can cause a p0171.

And also, the ground to the chasis was not connected securely at the terminal- what happens when you buy cheap parts from advance auto. Can a ground with a bad connection cause a p1297?

[EricTheCarGuy]

The faulty ground could cause the P1297 I believe. As for the timing causing a lean condition I don’t think so. It’s more likely a vacuum leak or not enough fuel that causes that code. I also just thought that an exhaust leak before the O2 sensor could also cause that code so if you have any exhaust leaks you might want to address those as well.

[sjrobinson]

Ok. so the p1297 seems to be solved now. what im happy about is that I learned from the intake manifold swap that I gotta go through the bolts twice cuz one side loosens after the other is tightened. That was the lesson from 20 hours of frustration. So I got thinking about that and applied it to my exhaust- 1 year later. I went through and sure enough some of the bolts on the head were a little loose. I tightened them and my exhaust sounds a lot cleaner and my car drives smoother. For now at least I think thats what the issue was and that caused the p0171. I’m hoping thats the issue cuz I dont think there are any more places that could allow air in or out.

Now for the timing issue. Its still around 10 degrees at idle. It should be at 15 from what I’ve read and asked around. Or should I not worry so much about that?

Thanks

[Author]

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