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This seems like a bad idea for everyone involved. It’s really hard to say what it will take to fix something (cars, plumbing, whatever), without seeing it firsthand.
Form the shop view (at least my perception since I’m a consumer) it seems like you would want to estimate based on the worst case scenario, but you will need to compete with those estimating on the best case scenario (until they wash out from losing money). Or they just lowball to get it into the shop then magically find a way to up the price based on what they actually find. All these things will probably lower the view of technicians and auto repair in general.
I’ve seen similar types of services where you put in a specific repair type for your vehicle (like brakes) and you can get quotes back, that seems dangerous too.
I wonder if there are huge disclaimers in the quotes that come back, like the quote is for diagnosis only.
It will be interesting to watch to see if it succeeds or not.
I can see this going all kinds of messed up. Not only for the consumer but for the business and techs. I work at a dealership and can totally see them putting someone behind a pc to do nothing more than send out quotes. I see this person having little to no experience fixing cars. That being said I ask you this, “Who will loose money if the quote is way below what it should have been?” It certainly isn’t going to be the dealer. I guarantee the techs will take the brunt of loss. Where I work they already drop labor times for techs if the quote gets messed up. They definitely are not going to loose money on the parts side, thats a big no no.
For the consumer and businesses I totally agree with you ETCG1. The consumer will accept the quote, bring the automobile in then get hit with a $3,000 estimate for upsells on top of the original repair quote. This in turn will cause a word of mouth drop in customers for the business.
You can not just quote with only a code and freeze frame data. What about evap leak codes? Is it a gas cap or did the customer just fuel up with the engine running? It could still be a leak in a line or canister. Codes are meant to point us techs to the problem area and or system so that we can better and faster diagnose the cause not so we can see a code and toss parts at the problem. Yes there are techs out there that have seen this or seen that cause this or that code and 80-90% of the time be correct. The problem is they never diagnosed a thing and could still be wrong. Why pay a diagnostic fee if all your mechanic is going to do is guess at the problem?
Three words: Invasion of Privacy
Progressives’ “Snapshot” is already bad enough in my humble opinion but at least that is voluntary and can only be read when accessed physically. The proposed OBDIII regulations would have done the same thing as this Open Bay to an extent and due to privacy concerns, OBDIII was shot down as proposed.
Of course, Open Bay is not government regulations but a business; however I don’t know how people would feel about their cars being monitored. It is one thing to just care about getting from point A to point B but it is another to infringe on privacy. Ya, businesses claim they protect your privacy but looked what happened with Google…they just sell your information to the highest bidder. I see alot of privacy concerns with this.
Take a gander at this: http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2015/driver-privacy-act-black-box.shtml
People care about privacy, remembered what happened after the Edward Snowden reveal?
As Benjamin Franklin said: “Those who trade freedom for security deserve neither”In any case, such a service would be a “niche” in my opinion. Most people like to go to shops they know, get referrals by word of mouth, or go to the dealership. This “Open Bay” seems no different than going onto craiglist for a mechanic.
Someone still needs to see the car, a code is only a starting point.EDIT: Also, why connect your car to the web when hacking is getting ever so more sophisticated? We hear daily of banks, businesses, and even the FBI themselves getting hacked. Why open yourself up to such things?
Some manufacturers already do this. I know Kia has a system that if a code pops it will notify you and show you the closest Kia dealer. It does NOT however send that code out with freeze frame to get “quotes” but it will allow you to make an appointment with the dealer YOU choose without ever having to call them.
I’m looking for the day when vehicles become auto updating. A lot of fixes for modern vehicles are software updates. There is no reason you car can’t update itself with todays technology. Maybe through bluetooth it could update when you pull onto the dealers lot or into the service drive?
[quote=”Beaird” post=135163]Some manufacturers already do this. I know Kia has a system that if a code pops it will notify you and show you the closest Kia dealer. It does NOT however send that code out with freeze frame to get “quotes” but it will allow you to make an appointment with the dealer YOU choose without ever having to call them.
I’m looking for the day when vehicles become auto updating. A lot of fixes for modern vehicles are software updates. There is no reason you car can’t update itself with todays technology. Maybe through bluetooth it could update when you pull onto the dealers lot or into the service drive?[/quote] I don’t like the idea of a car communicating with anything else period, be it a dealer, the gov, a satellite etc.
If you’ve seen the movie Christine, you know the ultimate solution…yes a movie from the 80s holds a solution. Self repairing cars. This can be accomplished not by a supernatural power like in the movie, but by an infant technology called nanobots. Nanobots have the potential to do a multitude of things including repairing machinery as necessary. Just food for thought.
I really don’t like the idea of this all this and I don’t think trying to estimate a repair based solely on a fault codes will work even if you are very familiar with the car most fault codes have at least 2 possibilities. Another thing who is going to actually going to diagnose them? Every garage will have to have a tech reading the fault data then getting parts to price it up then to the service advisor for a labour time I dont think you’ll find many flat rate techs wanting to spend there time reading fault codes and throwing darts.
Another big issue I forsee is qualitiy of repairs for example say a missfire for a 1 piece coil pack standard procedure is new coil pack + 4 plugs and it’s fixed now say garage A qoute $300 for this Garage B quote $275 but only replace the coil pack + the affected spark plug Garage C quote $ 125 Fit a used Coil pack and a set of working but used plugs. Now these would all technically fix the MIL and which one do you think will get the job?
[quote=”Fmxvxx” post=135165]I really don’t like the idea of this all this and I don’t think trying to estimate a repair based solely on a fault codes will work even if you are very familiar with the car most fault codes have at least 2 possibilities. Another thing who is going to actually going to diagnose them? Every garage will have to have a tech reading the fault data then getting parts to price it up then to the service advisor for a labour time I dont think you’ll find many flat rate techs wanting to spend there time reading fault codes and throwing darts.
Another big issue I forsee is qualitiy of repairs for example say a missfire for a 1 piece coil pack standard procedure is new coil pack + 4 plugs and it’s fixed now say garage A qoute $300 for this Garage B quote $275 but only replace the coil pack + the affected spark plug Garage C quote $ 125 Fit a used Coil pack and a set of working but used plugs. Now these would all technically fix the MIL and which one do you think will get the job?[/quote] Alot of things look good on paper or in an idea bubble, but when put into real world application fall apart. This is one of those things that is unsustainable as presented, even without the privacy concerns. You Fmxvxx, make some excellent points. Quotes cannot be made on a code alone and most techs would balk at such a system. I would like to see Open Bay run a poll of shops all across the country and see how many techs are willing to sit at a computer and diagnose an issue rather than seeing the car in person. Good on paper, but that’s about it.
Hey Eric!
I don’t know if it was just me but it seemed like your audio sync was either off, or going in and out. Something I’ve noticed, when recording video from my phone, is that the frame rate is not locked, but variable. When I edit these on my computer, the audio sync does the same thing. I don’t know what kind of camera you’re using, but it looks like a really nice high framerate cam. I would check to see if the framerate is locked, or variable.Just my 0.02 dollars! 😉
[quote=”Beaird” post=135163]I’m looking for the day when vehicles become auto updating. A lot of fixes for modern vehicles are software updates. There is no reason you car can’t update itself with todays technology. Maybe through bluetooth it could update when you pull onto the dealers lot or into the service drive?[/quote]
I’m sure as long as the customer has it linked directly to their credit card for automatic withdrawl the car companies would be fine with it. In fact, might be more incentive to intentionally design crap software and sell you a new fix every week. Then you would see car manufacturers finally generating revenue from more than just the wholesale of the car to a franchised dealer.
You don’t think they would give away something they can charge hundreds of dollars for do you? Their shareholders would form a lynch mob on them. We’ve got a similar discussion about this going on in a different board right now too, and I think that it is a terrible idea to allow a vehicle to be linked into the internet in any way shape or form. Both the government and the large corporations that bribe the government have proven time and again that they simply cannot be trusted to do the right thing nor will be held accountable and properly punished when caught doing wrong.
It suddenly occurs to me that with as dumb as people are in this country we can just wait for OpenBay to get shut down with a lawsuit. Someone will be driving along, the engine light pops on and OpenBay starts blowing up their phone with texts. Said idiot runs into a light pole while reading these texts and sues OpenBay for sending them. Considering how many Stella Awards have been given out to things just as dumb, maybe the problem will fix itself.
[quote=”nickwarner” post=135306][quote=”Beaird” post=135163]I’m looking for the day when vehicles become auto updating. A lot of fixes for modern vehicles are software updates. There is no reason you car can’t update itself with todays technology. Maybe through bluetooth it could update when you pull onto the dealers lot or into the service drive?[/quote]
I’m sure as long as the customer has it linked directly to their credit card for automatic withdrawl the car companies would be fine with it. In fact, might be more incentive to intentionally design crap software and sell you a new fix every week. Then you would see car manufacturers finally generating revenue from more than just the wholesale of the car to a franchised dealer.
[b]
You don’t think they would give away something they can charge hundreds of dollars for do you? Their shareholders would form a lynch mob on them. We’ve got a similar discussion about this going on in a different board right now too, and I think that it is a terrible idea to allow a vehicle to be linked into the internet in any way shape or form. Both the government and the large corporations that bribe the government have proven time and again that they simply cannot be trusted to do the right thing nor will be held accountable and properly punished when caught doing wrong.[/b]
It suddenly occurs to me that with as dumb as people are in this country we can just wait for OpenBay to get shut down with a lawsuit. Someone will be driving along, the engine light pops on and OpenBay starts blowing up their phone with texts. Said idiot runs into a light pole while reading these texts and sues OpenBay for sending them. Considering how many Stella Awards have been given out to things just as dumb, maybe the problem will fix itself. [/quote] ^This, the information can easily be abused(as said, time and time again our rights have been violated) and anything on the internet can also be hacked. Bad bad idea to link up. As long as there is a backdoor, big brother and hackers have a way in. If the gov doesn’t like you, they can crash your car and as we know, they sure are good at covering things up. Cars could become hackers playthings as well, hackers have hacked the FBI…imagine what they could do to millions of cars at once in an organized strike.Open Bay will be sued, there is no doubt in my mind. Natural selection applies everywhere.
Karl Marx would love this. There are so many things wrong with the concept and where the industry is going, I wouldn’t even know where to start. I will just say this, the freedoms people are throwing away, they will not be able to get back, once they realize they have been hoodwinked by very very corrupt politicans who are in bed with the corporate prostitutes as such and a bunch of other people that should be spending time in the crossbar motel. My car speaks to nobody.
So I guess in their eyes you, me and Chevyman basically drive a middle finger on 4 wheels. Cheers to that.
[quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=135344]Karl Marx would love this. There are so many things wrong with the concept and where the industry is going, I wouldn’t even know where to start. I will just say this, the freedoms people are throwing away, they will not be able to get back, once they realize they have been hoodwinked by very very corrupt politicans who are in bed with the corporate prostitutes as such and a bunch of other people that should be spending time in the crossbar motel. My car speaks to nobody.[/quote] I have read the books “1984” as well as “A Brave New World”, I have seen movies where the Bill of Rights has been taken away from the people by the gov and then government oppression ensues. The writing is on the wall, people can still chose not to embrace these obvious power grabs but as Nick has pointed out, the majority of people are stupid. They will follow radical leaders blindly until they have nothing left. As for me, they will have to pry my wrench and steering wheel from my cold dead hands.
[quote=”nickwarner” post=135381]So I guess in their eyes you, me and Chevyman basically drive a middle finger on 4 wheels. Cheers to that.[/quote] Pretty much, Andrew actually reminded me of a great song a few weeks ago that goes like this:
My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire
Where my white-haired uncle waitsJump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dreamI strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
I fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crimeWind
In my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge…Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve awareSuddenly ahead of me
Across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air car
Shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires
To run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley
As another joins the chaseDrive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud with fear and hope
I’ve got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded at the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle at the firesideRush-Red Barchetta
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