Oil Pan Cracked – Honda/Acura

[philh]

Been rebuilding a 97 Acura CL and noticed a small leak around the oil plug.

This seemed to start right after my wife took the car in and had the oil changed and put synthetic in it.

I figured it was the crush washer and the combination of putting synthetic in a car with 95K miles just made it leak faster.
Replaced the crush washer and bolt, torqued to 33 ft/lbs, and ITS STILL LEAKING!!

Upon further examination, noticed that there is a hairline crack/fracture, approximately 1/2″ right next to the drain hole. Looks like it was caused by stress from some idiot over-torqueing the drain plug.

Topic

[fitone]

Agree with previous comment about trying to find a used vs new oil pan if possible. Yes, 14 year old car with rusted exhaust bolts will be a pain. Grip Tite sockets might come in handy for a job like this, rounded bolt heads will probably happen otherwise.

Personally I would just stick with mineral oil vs syn. oil for a 14 year old car. Just my opinion..

See this link for info. about leaks with syn. oil in an older car.

http://www.carbibles.com
then go to Engine Oil Bible

[pcmdjason]

I dunno why but I think silcone or rtv might stick better.

[3SheetsDiesel]

If the pan’s cracked, it’s most likely going to have to be replaced. Personally speaking, i’ve never been able to repair a pan with a crack in it. Overall, those oil pans aren’t too terribly hateful to replace. Soak the exhaust bolts with penetrating oil for a while before you start to disassemble them, but keep in mind that they may need to be replaced if they break. New exhaust hardware can be sourced from just about any auto-parts store and is usually dirt cheap. As far as a how-to of oil pan replacement, it’s fairly straightforward. You’re going to need a 10mm socket, a 12mm socket, probably a 14mm socket, a ratchet, some extensions, possibly a torch (for exhaust hardware removal), a plastic/rubber mallet, possibly a small prybar, some penetrating oil, a new oil pan, a new oil pan gasket, fresh oil of the proper amount and viscosity, a fresh oil filter and some light colored spray paint. You may also need new exhaust gaskets, but you can probably reuse the ones you’ve got.

I’m going to presume that you already know to wear eye protection and have the car on jackstands while you’re doing this sort of thing.

Spray the exhaust hardware with penetrating oil and let it soak. Now, drain the engine oil into a drain pan. I say spray the nuts/bolts first to give the oil a chance to soak in and break up the rust. Now, using the 12mm socket (if memory serves), remove the nuts attaching the downpipe to the exhaust manifold. The torch, if you have access to one, may come in handy here. Just be sure not to damage anything with the flame. After you get those nuts loosened, move to the next exhaust flange in the system and remove the spring bolts that should be there. These will probably break, but spring bolts are cheap. Now, the only thing holding up the exhaust should be a metal bracket just behind the oil pan. Go ahead and remove those nuts now and then lower the exhaust and set it off to the side where it won’t get in the way.

Once the exhaust is down, there is a bracket on the transmission bellhousing that attaches to the engine. Go ahead and remove that bracket now. I believe that the fasteners are 14mm on that bracket. Set it off ot the side as well. Now, there is a sheetmetal plate behind the bracket that you just removed. Go ahead and take that off too. Those should be 10mm bolts. Set it off ot the side making note of which direction it was facing. It’ll only fit back on in one direction.

Now that that’s all finished, you’re ready to remove the oil pan. Put the drain plug back in so that it’s not dripping oil all over you, and using your 10mm socket, go ahead and remove all the fasteners holding the oil pan to the bottom of the engine. I forget exactly how many there are, but make sure not to lose any of them. I tend to put them in a magnetic tray. Once you’ve got all the fasteners off, the pan will probably be stuck to the bottom of the engine. This is my favorite part of the job. Bash the old pan with the mallet to loosen it’s hold on the bottom of the block and it shold start to come off. You may need to help it along with the prybar, but be careful not to scratch the gasket surface on the bottom of the block. Go ahead and remove and left-over gasket material attached to the engine block now.

This is the part where you’ll paint the new oil pan with a light colored spray paint if you feel like it. I like to do so to help see oil leaks easier. You can skip this step if you want to. Just try not to get paint on the inside of the pan.

You can either put the gasket on the pan and then put the pan on the engine, but I’ve actually had better luck putting the gasket on teh engine and then putting the pan up. There are studs along the perimeter of the gasket surface that will do a fine job of holding the gasket in place for you while you put the pan on. Start all the fasteners with your fingers, and then I usually tighten every other fastener until it just touches the pan, then I go back and do the same for the ones that I skipped originally. Keep going around in circles until you’ve gotten them all torqued to spec. I don’t remember what the torque spec is for those fasteners, I usually tighten them by feel.

After you get the new pan installed, replace the oil filter (I’m presuming that you’re going to live with the small leak until it’s due for it’s next oil change), add the proper amount of whatever oil you’ve decided to use, put the exhaust back on, tighten all those fasteners down and then check for leaks both in the oil pan and the exhaust.

Depending upon how much of a fight the exhaust puts up, this job shouldn’t take too long. I think the last one I did took me a little less than an hour, but I had the added advantages of a lift, power tools (for disassembly only) and an oxy-acetylene cutting torch. You may need more time, especially if you’re using hand tools on your back in the driveway/garage.

Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

Go ahead and put the drain plug back in now

[Matt]

Quoted From philh:

This seemed to start right after my wife took the car in and had the oil changed and put synthetic in it.

Did you take it to a Jiffy-Lube type place? I would take it back and ask them for reimbursement on having the pan replaced. My friend’s girlfriend took her newer Toyota Corolla with 30k miles to a Jiffy Lube, and they sold her on a trans flush. The trans failed shortly after, and they had to bite the bullet on that one.

[fitone]

First, I would say replace the oil pan. I would not try the JB weld fix, that might be a short term fix but it will not hold long term. Suggest that you go to Autozone.com and then go to “Repair Info” tab at top of home page. Setup an account for your car and you will find step by step instructions on how to remove the oil pan. Pretty sure that removing the exhaust pipe is required as well as a cross member. Instructions should verify that.

[pcmdjason]

Probably ran it in with an impact gun.

[TexasCoder]

1. Has anyone seen this before?

I have seen this on my nephew’s 2003 dodge stratus, the oil pan had a hair line crack near the drain plug that produced a couple of drips every hour or so. It was a BEAR to find, but once I did, I was relieved that it was just the oil pan.

2. Can it be fixed by draining the oil and using JB Weld — or would I be better off replacing the oil pan?

Replace the oil pan, this is not something I would trust to JB Weld.

3. How difficult and how long would it take to replace the Oil Pan on this car? (Looks like you have to drop the exhaust under the pan – bolts heavily rusted).

Not sure on the time for an Acura, but my nephew and I spent about 2 hours replacing his. We had to drop the cross member and remove a portion of his exhaust. The two hours was mostly spent with me letting him to the work to learn, and me walking him through the steps. In any case, no matter how long it takes, make sure to take your time, and do it right the first time.

4. Is there a good DIY for replacing the oil pan?

I did not find any videos on replacing the oil pan, but I agree with fitone, check out autozone and see what instructions they have. You can also try this post on accessing the Chilton’s online manual and see fi that has anything: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/forum/topics.aspx?ID=107

Lastly, is it a bad idea to put synthetic in a 14 year old car — ie, will it cause additional leakage as compared to regular oil? Or is this a myth?

Using synthetic can increase oil pressure, but the only true advantage I have seen is extended oil change intervals when I use synthetics. It’s up to you, usually synthetic is less expensive for me than conventional oil, so I tend to stick with Synthetic, plus I like to go 4-5000 miles before having to change the oil in my cars…that part is just cause my lazy side takes over 🙂

[philh]

Here are a couple pictures of the hairline crack.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc25 … f79a47.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc25 … b73b6c.jpg
I think tightening the drain bolt to 33 ft/lbs makes the stress crack a little larger — loosening it slows the flow of oil.

Even with a crack this small, you think JB Weld is a bad idea?
I’m not against buying a new oil pan, just not looking forward to trying to remove 14 year old rusted exhaust bolts.
Ugh….

Any thoughts on my question regarding switching to Synthetic causing an increased rate of leaking?

[pcmdjason]

I wonder if JB weld would actually hold.

I was going to suggest having it welded with a MIG gun but that might cause a fire.

[TejasNW]

If the pan is cracked and needs to be replaced, what could trying the Epoxy hurt? An old leak is an inconvience, but not critical. The worst that can happen at this point is you lose a little oil, waste a tub of epoxy, and end up replacing the pan anyway.

Since it is an older car, you might be able to find a used pan if you hunt around a little. While you look, see if the JB can do the job.

[twiggy]

It can’t hurt to try jb weld although you might have better luck with a thinner epoxy that you could try to draw into the crack. I would wait a good while before filling the pan with oil. Another thing you could try is try to get some rtv sealant into the crack which is flexible.

[philh]

Quoted From Beefy:
Did you take it to a Jiffy-Lube type place? I would take it back and ask them for reimbursement on having the pan replaced. My friend’s girlfriend took her newer Toyota Corolla with 30k miles to a Jiffy Lube, and they sold her on a trans flush. The trans failed shortly after, and they had to bite the bullet on that one.

She took it to a local gas station — proving incompetence is widespread and not limited to Jiffy-Lube type places.

With a car this old, I doubt they would acknowledge they caused the problem. So, will avoid the frustration of going back and trying to convince them they did it.

[philh]

Quoted From fitone:

Agree with previous comment about trying to find a used vs new oil pan if possible. Yes, 14 year old car with rusted exhaust bolts will be a pain. Grip Tite sockets might come in handy for a job like this, rounded bolt heads will probably happen otherwise.

Personally I would just stick with mineral oil vs syn. oil for a 14 year old car. Just my opinion..

See this link for info. about leaks with syn. oil in an older car.

http://www.carbibles.com
then go to Engine Oil Bible

Thanks fitone – I was looking for facts and guidance on the synthetic/leak issue. Probably best not to tempt my luck any further and think I will drain out the synthetic and put the regular stuff back in.

3SheetsDiesel:

Thanks much for taking the time and putting together the write-up.

Really dreading the exhaust bolts… Feel like things are so rusty, it will just laugh at PB Blaster and torch. Hope I don’t break off the exhaust manifold studs or something more expensive…

If you look at the pics, the crack is really, really small — and it is tempting to try to just seal it up with something. Maybe switching back to regular oil might stop it completely. But, know this is not the right way to fix the problem.

[philh]

One Question:

Would it be OK to use an impact wrench on the nuts connecting the A-Pipe to the exhaust manifold?
(Don’t want to break the studs…)

Thanks.

[mckrishes]

I don’t think it will be that bad removing the rusty exhaust bolts. My civic is 12 years and I replaced the exhuast manifold. The bolts appeared very rusty, but I put some acetone spray on it and I had no trouble removing them. I am sure penetrating oil is better and will help you get the bolts of quicker.

[Author]

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