Oh goodie…

[Jeff]

The car in question is a 2000 Buick Le Saber Custom 3.8l V6 Series II. This car belongs to my 75 year old grandmother who is on a limited income.

I’m going to try and make this short.

So I was using her car one day, and noticed that the brake light was coming on either turning left or sometimes right. I figured it was low, and I was correct, so I topped it up. She asked me to take it to the local repair shop (Firestone). So I told her I would do that.

So I went to Firestone to have them do the free brake inspection, and they decided to do their free courtesy check as well, thought I didn’t ask for it.
After they tell us that the back brakes need replaced one is leaking fluid, and the car needs 4 new tires, she declined until she would be able to afford the work. They put a new tire on it last year, so it really only needed 3, so I went a head after a few days and bought 2 new tires from them.

After the tire visit is when things started going iffy with the car. We noticed it was getting only warmish air, and that the car was just getting hot quicker than normal and the temp gauge was nailed in the center and never went past that. (not normal for this car to get to the center mark). After going to the store and talking to my grandmother in the car we both hear gurggling and then a loud “dong” which was the thermostat opening bone dry…(though I didn’t think anything of it at the time). Never heard this with her car before. I also saw a small puddle under her car at the store, but didn’t think it was hers as another car had just left the same spot.

After driving the car for a few more days, it was giving off no heat and was getting hot. So I figure it just needed coolant.. Well come to find out the lower coolant hose was completely off .. I shoved it back on and took it back to Firestone and demanded they correct it, which they did. Just to note, this car never had a coolant leak until after the visit from firestone.

Cutting this short here.

After their fix, the car just dumped coolant like it was running out a tap, and I was buying coolant every few days. I ended up doing what I never do.. I dumped stop leak into it.. I couldn’t afford coolant every few days.. This stopped the leak for the most part..

I ended up filing a complaint with the BBB, and Firestone sent out an independent inspector to look at the car. Took them over a week of me emailing them to get a copy of the report only to find out they won’t take liability for this.

I have a few questions, and I am going to quote a few parts of the inspection.

There were also coolant stains running down the rear of the engine consistent with an active leak emanating the intake gaskets and oil and coolant puddles accumulated on top of the intake from the aforementioned leak. The inspector also observed the aforementioned stains were mixed with road dirt and debris indicating they had been active long-term and were not leaks that originated recently.

I underlined the part I thought was strange, between the BBB complaint, waiting on firestone to contact me, and then waiting for them to have someone inspect it took about a month. You would think that this is to be expected that it would have dirt and debris during the leak, considering it was being driven…

The inspector watched as approximately a pint of water was added to the cooling system until it was verified to be full in the radiator

Inspector did no such thing.. Inspector was outside on the phone…. Water?! I really hope not, that stuff freezes ya know, though I was there the whole time, really couldn’t tell what it was as the jug was dirty as heck….

The subject vehicle was started and the inspector verified it started and ran with no unusual noises or excessive smoke at start up;

Lies! Motor was shaking and revved up and went to normal idle, no more shaking… Yet doesn’t state this..

however, after running the engine to operating temperatures, white smoke – steam was blowing out the exhaust consistent with an internal engine problem.

White smoke started only after visiting firestone. internal engine problem.. wounder what caused that… oh firestone… duh.

The inspector verified when the A/C compressor engaged neither the engine nor the condenser electric cooling fan motors engaged or ran indicating problem(s) in the cooling fan system that will require additional testing and diagnosis to pinpoint the root cause and extent of the problem(s).

More lies! Never even tested this, so no need to put it down.. As for the fans, they work just like they should.. The A/C has never worked on this car… So no you did not look or test it….

The previous replacement of the tires courtesy check service and brake inspection were quality services that neither caused nor contributed to the external coolant leaks, coolant consumption or internal engine problem suspected.

When I tried to ask them why the cars hood was up during the tire replacement, they couldn’t or just wouldn’t answer me on that. Firestone also ignored me on that one too. They even tried to stone wall me a few times, trying to tell me that it could of happened once they topped up the coolant due to pressure. Well I’m not new to cars, I just don’t work on them cause I don’t have the space or tools required.. But if this was the case, then the liability would STILL fall on them. I never asked for their courtesy check and I didn’t ask them to top up the coolant.. :angry:

Sorry for the long post, here are my questions.

Is this car worth fixing? I’m sure its going to cost more than its worth if they have to pinpoint what the failure is caused by..
Should I take legal action? Considering nothing was wrong with the car before the visits to firestone?
Should I just try to replace the car? This will be a last ditch effort..

Topic

[Ian Williams]

It’s pretty much a case of he said , you said , you could try getting a lawyer to draft a letter threatening action , and see what happens , they may out of good will settle

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[Ray]

Firestone is a rip off. They used to be good before they changed upper management a few years ago. In the last 2-3 years it has gone downhill in terms of customer service and honesty. I had been taking my daily driver to them exclusively. The previous service manager was great, mechanic honest. I had my shocks and struts replaced at another shop that I had switched to a few years ago. Since I had Firestones lifetime alignment on that car, I decided to forgo the alignment charge and just take it to Firestone. The crooks took 3 hours and when it was done they told me they were unable to align it all the way because I needed a new rack and pinion. Until I got that fixed by them they would no longer align the car. HA! what a joke. Unbeknown to that “new” manager, Firestone (the same shop) had already replaced my rack several years ago because it was indeed leaking. I told the guy to get my car off the lift pronto, I’m wasn’t buying his bull. I took it back to my other shop and paid the $60 alignment fee. They were able to get it perfectly aligned and nothing was wrong with my rack and pinion unit at all. Crooks! The whole “lifetime” alignment gimmick is to get you to come back so they can give you a “free inspection” while it is there and upsell you and stuff you don’t need. Stay far, far, far away from Firestone auto service. I do however like Bridgestone Pole Position tires, but I would never have them installed at Firestone.

Good luck!

[zero]

Cars break. Sometimes they break after something else has been fixed. It doesn’t mean that one is related to the other.

I’m not sure about the 3.8s, but the 3.1 and 3.4 V6s are known to blow the lower intake gaskets out. Depending on the 3.8, there are some stupid coolant passages that may also be the culprit. If there is a problem with the intake gasket, it would have the capability to effect the performance of the engine.

If there’s nothing else wrong with the car, a leaking intake manifold would not generally be enough to condemn the whole car. If you can prove that nothing was wrong with the car before, then take legal action. If you can’t then it would probably be a waste of time.

[Ahabiam]

All of that SUCKS. I have been there, and it is no fun. As far as Firestone, personally, I think your wasting your time. You can hire a lawyer and go after them, you may be successful, you may not be. All of the time and effort for a possible outcome – nothing confirmed may not be worth it. I would file a BBB complaint against them, maybe continue to call them and rattle the cage to raise awareness, but I don’t think you will ever be satisfied. I have never seen one of these places do what is needed to restore faith with the customer.

I would get the car to a mechanic you can TRUST without a doubt, and get an honest approximation of what is going on. At least then you can make an educated decision. Look at reviews, talk to other people. You can find somebody to at least give you some facts to work with.

Good luck.. Sorry to hear this went so wrong.

[James O’Hara]

DaFirnz the thing that gets me is the lower coolant hose off. The clamps don’t just hop off of them on their own. Especially with the 2000 and up stuff it is more then likely those all metal one piece annoying piles of garbage. They leak but, they never fall off.

Unless you got pictures with time stamps or had it at a previous garage or something it is he said she said and you will get no where fast. My suggestion to you is get local news involved and blast them on social media and youtube. I hate to be that way but, it is the only way it will get fixed for sure.

[Jeff]

[quote=”MDK22″ post=157412]DaFirnz the thing that gets me is the lower coolant hose off. The clamps don’t just hop off of them on their own. Especially with the 2000 and up stuff it is more then likely those all metal one piece annoying piles of garbage. They leak but, they never fall off.

Unless you got pictures with time stamps or had it at a previous garage or something it is he said she said and you will get no where fast. My suggestion to you is get local news involved and blast them on social media and youtube. I hate to be that way but, it is the only way it will get fixed for sure.[/quote]

Yes! Thank you! That is what I was thinking after I saw it! The hose clamp was loose, as in it had to of been undone at some point. If pressure was the cause, I honestly think it would of happened to me years of go, I have put coolant in this car for my grandmother many times, just to keep it topped off.
And I do have a picture, just phones don’t put time/date stamps on them. It was taken on 11/13.

I plan to go after them with the local media and on FB ect.. I won’t let them botch someone else’s car. The only shop that has done work to this car is Firestone.

Attachments:

• coolanthose1.jpg

[James O’Hara]

The kind I though you had were these:

That is a worm style clamp they can vibrate loose if not tightened properly. If you did not get rubber to bump up in between the little slits it was not tight enough. Also if you wrap the tail back over the head of the screw/bolt it will not loosen enough to fall off but, it makes removal later a pain in the butt. This is always evident on the hose by leftover bumps or waves if you spun it while loosening it as it will cut the hose if you do that and cause little pieces that stick out that look like waves.

You want just a slight bump past the metal part of your clamp. You want enough of a bump to just barely catch your nail on it. We are talking 1/32″ to 1/16″. You do not want to see little waves. Some people might disagree with this way of doing it but, I really could care less. I have never over tightened a clamp this way except cheapy harbor freight ones and then it just breaks. I also have never had a leak due to a clamp of proper size by doing this.

When you bend over the tail the nut can only backup as far as the bend will allow. While it can be over powered or with enough vibration eventually break it is a hell of a lot less likely to fall off. Like I said it does make things a pain in the butt to remove but, you can cut it or bend it back you just will need a new clamp next time.

I prefer constant torque clamps they are the ones with a coil spring on them. They work exceedingly well. They are a little harder to find for the smaller size but, it is very rare that they come loose. We are talking 100k+ miles on a Big Rig and still not coming loose. Once again they have to be tightened correctly.

[Jeff]

Yeah I’m sure it was tight enough on the hose. I figure if it wasn’t, it would of happened before the visit to firestone.

[saul]

I say try to go with the local media, Facebook, yelp, Google reviews and stuff like that. The local media sounds pretty good, tell them about your grandma. If I was really pissed I would stand outside Firestone with a boycott sign or something. Lol.

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[zero]

[quote=”MDK22″ post=157412]DaFirnz the thing that gets me is the lower coolant hose off. The clamps don’t just hop off of them on their own. Especially with the 2000 and up stuff it is more then likely those all metal one piece annoying piles of garbage. They leak but, they never fall off.[/quote]

If a lower rad hose came off, it would puke a majority of the coolant out almost instantly. The rad would be empty and there would probably be a huge puddle on the ground. If there was enough coolant left in the engine to open the thermostat, once it opened, the rest of the coolant would be gone.

I’m against shitty shops probably more than the average person. I would like nothing more than for them to be wiped off the face of the earth. I tend to air on the side of random acts of randomness unless I see proof otherwise. Because honestly the thought of someone sabotaging a car to make money honestly pisses me right the fuck off.

[Jeff]

Yeah, but if it happened while the car was running and when we were driving it, I would honestly think it would create lots of steam when the hose came off. However, the fact remains that there was no steam, no smell of coolant, nothing to tell me something was wrong besides the no heat and it was warming up quicker than before.

I decided to go ahead and start a GoFundMe because my grandmother currently has no money to correct the problems with the car, and I did contact my local media as well, and they are supposed to get back with me soon.

I won’t post the GoFundMe link because seeing how I’m still a n00b here on the forum, I am sure that would be frowned on and I don’t wanna cause trouble.

[Jeff]

So I just heard back from Firestone again. The inspection company thinks I’m blaming them now. :blink:

The work (inspection company) did was quality – they didn’t cause or contribute to the leaks or internal problem now present.

Wow.. Just wow.. I never blamed the inspector for anything, and yet somehow they think I have.. :S

We didn’t find any hose off

Let me say this.. DUH! you didn’t find any hose off, I made firestone put it back ON the day I found it..

but the hose could have been forced off due to excessive pressures generated in the cooling system by the current internal engine problem.

The fact is, there wasn’t an internal engine problem before the visit. I’ve had a few cars years ago that had internal engine problems that caused coolant combustion in the cylinder and then out the exhaust, and you notice it because you are always adding coolant. This car rarely needed coolant added, only here and there.

The road dirt and debris signifies the leak was active long term – yes it could have been months.

Sorry but no, there was no active long term leak.. No coolant on the motor, no coolant on the ground, the car wasn’t loosing coolant at all until after the visit. I will just let them keep diging that hole…

We believe – if the hose blew off, that is why and it was not due to leaving a hose clamp loose or improperly positioning the hose.

Well you can believe what you want, I believe they sabotaged the hose/clamp.

if there was excessive pressures, I honestly would think the waterpump gasket would of popped before the hose would come off.. I’ve had waterpump gaskets pop, and it was due to excessive pressures… Never had a hose just come off… I won’t be emailing them again, no point to trying. Looks like I keep going with local media and FB ect..

[saul]

If they have a yelp page give them a bad review. Also on Google reviews. Contact the better business Bureau if you haven’t done it already.

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[Jeff]

[quote=”mocte99″ post=157762]If they have a yelp page give them a bad review. Also on Google reviews. Contact the better business Bureau if you haven’t done it already. [/quote]

I can give them a bad review, but I doubt that would make an impact. As for the BBB, I already did and while I was working out the details for when the inspection would take place, the BBB closed the case because I wasn’t able to respond in 4 days (way too short of a time span if you ask me).

[Chris]

For what it’s worth, you can get the time and date stamp from your photo if you *copy* it onto your PC and download a free program that reads EXIF information! A free program called “irfan view” or something springs to mind…
Keep the original photo on the phone as could be admissible as evidence if you ever go to court.
Good luck!

[Author]

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