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Hey Eric,
I found what you said about electric cars being modular interesting. I do think that’s the way manufacturers are going. It reminded me that, back in 2008, I was looking at buying a Mazda 3 and was doing some research and came across this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C1_platform
That goes back to the early 2000s. And even back then they were already thinking about modular setups that could be tweaked for each vehicle line across different brands.
Great video.
Agree with this…
I recently bought a new vehicle and one of the salesman’s talked up points was the “free service” for the first two scheduled services and on the fourth and fifth service.
I took the vehicle to its first service at 6 months… They didn’t even change the oil…(synthetic)… So essentially it was a visual inspection of fluids and brakes…
This service took around 45 minutes with a car wash included 🙂
The 12 month or 10,000 mile service is an oil change and same visual inspection… (free again)
The 18 month service is essentially the same (but you have to pay for this)
The next two services are “free”
Point being, these are a “feel good” services that are technically “free” to the consumer but really little needs to be done, but is a selling point for the sales department about all these “free” services.
Toyota is now saying that brake fluid is lifetime and are sealing the trans…. (Ironically Lexus does have a scheduled brake fluid change at 30k)…Hmmmm… Pretty much only oil and filters are changed at 30k… No transmission fluid change ever and coolant is changed at 100k miles…. Keeping costs down….
Service schedule stops at 180k miles….
As far as disposable parts… Talk to any happy (sarcastically said) Saturn Vue owner who has a VTi automatic transmission…. They are costly to repair and fail at 70-90k miles… Cost is around 4k for a new transmission… Craigslist is full of shiny nice Saturn Vues for around 1K because of the transmission issue… this is one where the engineers did not have a good showing…
JMHO
-Karl
🙂 A really good video subject, Eric. There is a change in the world of auto repair and those of us who have lived more than a decade or two have seen the evolution. Just as you mentioned in the video, the change in automotive technology has made repairing a part obsolete. When carburetors were the chosen method of fuel distribution, ,many repair parts were available for the mechanic. With fuel injection now the method used, carburetors are becoming a item that is better replaced than repaired, as the parts and the talent to repair the carburetor are vanishing.
The key to all this is the words you spoke in the beginning of the video, Car companies make money now, not automobiles. Most vehicles built today all look the same, drive the same and are built by co-operation between manufactures. The days of a car company building a car that is both repairable and cheap for the owner are vanishing. The car companies now believe they know what you want to own and repair better than you do. Look at the loss of the spare tire, a item that has been on every car since they were first built. As you mentioned in the video, soon our car will become just another electronic toy that we own and no longer a expression of our individuality and freedom.After watching this video I feel like the future is coming too fast, it’s kind of scary. It’s like every Ericthecarguy video I watch, the more I want to pursue becoming a mechanic; but every ETCG1 video I see kind of scares me away. I have very little experience working on vehicles and I think I will keep it as a hobby and not as a profession.
Hopefully, Eric can get some of these newer vehicles in his shop and we can see what’s going on in the engine compartment.
Great video Eric.well, this is truly an interesting topic.
if this trend continues we gain efficiency in the “fixing” aspect …
as in … “no more fixing” and not “less broken stuff”.if a couple of bands are busted in a non-serviceable transmission, and you change the transmission,
it is “fixed”, but what about waste .. what about all the good parts left?
how is that more efficient than someone who knows how to open up a transmission, and fix just the bands and keep the transmission going?
The waste from throwing away all the good stuff along with the bad stuff i would imagine is more inefficient than fixing up just the bad stuff.
But they (the analysts and the researchers) can’t/don’t want to quantify the waste aspect of it.This is why “repair” (any type of repair, be it machine or man) takes experience and with that experience the repair-er becomes more efficient.
Patient feels pain in middle finger from over-use.
Doctor’s job is to remove patient’s pain (“fix” it).
Doctor amputates hand from patient.
Patient definitely no longer feels finger pain.
Heck, i aint’ no doctor and i thought of this way to fix the finger pain.
But, truly, is that efficient?
This is neither rhetorical nor contemplatory (this might not be real word), it’s a flat out NO.
It’s inefficient … but the solution was spot on. The pain from the patient’s middle finger was fixed.I say, all that modular crap will cause too much waste and i’d like to see THAT part quantified.
End of the day, it’s just a way to “save” a buck on the manufacturer’s side while improving the consumer’s overall “experience” with the product. Can’t do this for free, gotta be a cost somewhere.
2 cents.
Fascinating topic, reminds me of one of my technician friends who remarked to me once “back in the day, they used to fix parts instead of just replacing them” which I thought was pretty interesting. When my 1992 Honda Civic needed a new starter, he showed me that you could just clean the contacts on the solenoid and have a perfectly functional starter. I wonder how many cars today you’d be able to do that on?
With all these manufacturers switching to sealed transmissions with lifetime fills, lifetime brake fluid, and dipstick-less engines that can only have their oil levels checked with a specialized computer, does anyone think that eventually independent shops won’t be able to service new vehicles any more?
one thing i can say that i don’t mind not being serviceable is wheel bearings, i think the downside is yea the wheel bearings are more expensive but hey you unbolt the entire assembly hub, abs sensor, bearings all in one shot and bolt the new assembly right back onto the vehicle and wahla done… yes now wheel bearings are quite a bit more expensive because now you are also replacing a ABS sensor (cool part is my car doesn’t have abs so parts are cheaper!) and the wheel hub with the bearings…
but i hate this concept of disposable transmissions, i enjoy being able too observe my transmission fluid levels, and seeing the color of the fluid, something like a transmission is not like a wheel bearing, transmission overhaul for my car would range between 1,500 and 2,000, a new transmission don’t even get me started… i will hate too see the day when we cant change pads, and in my honest opinion i don’t think we will be seeing hybrids or electric cars as much in the future unless the batteries in those vehicles improve, and the production process improves, and the power grid we will plug these cars into becomes cleaner, then maybe hybrids will become a better option but until then cars like we are driving now are… and i think for some time we will be still changing brake pads and rotors, and stuff like that.
ooh and yea you can purchase shift kits for some transmissions that allow them too shift more firmly, i can see doing that sometime in the future with my car… i don’t mind a hard shifting transmission, i like too feel it shift gears, and it will just help the transmission last longer anyways as eric explained.
From a technician’s perspective, honestly I’m all for modularizing components. It just makes my job easier and less dirty when it comes to servicing a vehicle. There will always be diagnostic elements to the job. Even as car companies have integrated more sensors and such to help with the ease of diagnostics on vehicles over the years the only thing it’s done really is force the person servicing the vehicle to have more expensive tools (scanners) and the diagnostic ability to rule out the actual sensor as the problem.
I think that this will ultimately kill larger, shady corporate automotive programs that look to make their dime on selling services like brake jobs and fluid exchanges while stepping up legitimate technicians that actually fix problems. It will probably even be better for small operation repair shops that do legitimate repairs as well, depending on what kind of equipment the manufacturers require you to have to diagnose/service these modular items.
Although from a car owner perspective it kinda scares me. Modularizing makes changing parts easier to change but it also make parts much more expensive. If a $10 part inside my transmission goes bad I want the option to take that transmission apart and replace that part rather than my only option being to buy a new transmission. Still, I assume I’m part of a minority with this since most people would have to pay a technician labor to do this and at that point they might as well get a new trans anyway.
[quote=”quickNpainless” post=99682]From a technician’s perspective, honestly I’m all for modularizing components. It just makes my job easier and less dirty when it comes to servicing a vehicle. There will always be diagnostic elements to the job. Even as car companies have integrated more sensors and such to help with the ease of diagnostics on vehicles over the years the only thing it’s done really is force the person servicing the vehicle to have more expensive tools (scanners) and the diagnostic ability to rule out the actual sensor as the problem.
I think that this will ultimately kill larger, shady corporate automotive programs that look to make their dime on selling services like brake jobs and fluid exchanges while stepping up legitimate technicians that actually fix problems. It will probably even be better for small operation repair shops that do legitimate repairs as well, depending on what kind of equipment the manufacturers require you to have to diagnose/service these modular items.
Although from a car owner perspective it kinda scares me. Modularizing makes changing parts easier to change but it also make parts much more expensive. If a $10 part inside my transmission goes bad I want the option to take that transmission apart and replace that part rather than my only option being to buy a new transmission. Still, I assume I’m part of a minority with this since most people would have to pay a technician labor to do this and at that point they might as well get a new trans anyway.[/quote]
yes sir! lets say my transmission wears out, i can go get my transmission overhauled and put the parts i want into it, for example i can have the HD transmissions diff installed and that has a LSD that is more robust than the regular open diff, higher quality clutch plates and drive bands, shift kit, and spend less because i didn’t have too buy a whole new transmission, and then have better quality parts in it means not only will my transmission last longer but be able too take the punishment of possible upgrades such as a turbo or combocharged set up.
For those of you in the camp of ‘if they modularize parts they’re going to be more expensive’, I want you to consider this. The entire idea of modularization is to make parts cheaper and easier to replace. I believe it will be just the opposite and parts will become cheaper not more expensive. Consider ‘quick struts’ as an example. They often cost a little more than a strut on it’s own, but when you consider the cost of the strut, spring, and upper bearing plate, priced separately they’re more expensive. I think the same will be true with modularization.
As for the DIY. In a way, it makes it easier. Think about it. If your vehicle could send you an email with a fault code telling you it needs service, don’t you think someone will come along like a Torque app or something like that to show you exactly what to replace and how to replace it? Those willing to do so will be able to do so easily I think, and with less tools. Heck, they could probably order the stuff online and have it delivered right to their door on the same device that told them their vehicle had a fault code, probably from directly within the app.
As for the repair industry, I think things will change big time. But consider this. The vehicles in service today will likely still be in service in 20 years or so. They’ll still need all the repair work and service work they do today, if not more. It will take a while for the industry to adapt. I will say that in the end, it will be very different than it is today. For the better or worse remains to be seen. The technician of today will be nothing like the one of tomorrow I think. Honestly, that’s the way it’s always been. Heck, when I first started we still had carburetors to work on. These days, I doubt any new tech would even understand how one worked, but they likely could run circles around me and those from former periods with their computer related savvy.
One thing is for certain, things will change, and most likely the market will dictate that change. Many of you have talked about car companies forcing things down your throat, truth is, you vote with your wallet. If you don’t want a hybrid, don’t buy one. If you don’t like what they’re selling, don’t buy it. They will come around to suite your needs, trust me. They follow the money just as much as anyone. They don’t spend millions on focus groups for nothing. They want to know what you want, and they also want to know how they can make it for you and still bring in a profit.
Let’s check back on this tread in 10 years and see what’s happened.
what you say is somewhat true eric, when it comes down too the wire lots of shops are taking lots of components and replacing the whole unit, for example if the engine where too go out in my car it would probably just be cheaper too replace the entire engine with a already re built unit and get the core out of the old one. however with transmissions at times its still cheaper too have those re built than it is too throw another transmission in, i can see in the future as transmissions become more complicated it being cheaper to do the same thing with transmissions as they do engines.
in fact most shops i have noticed are already outsourcing the transmissions too transmission shops, they will take the transmission out of the car, take it too a shop and have it overhauled, and then put it back in the car later and its already happening. but the issue is i really don’t see that happening with brakes any time soon, its just too easy too replace a set of pads when they wear out and not ethical too have them tied into a model with wheel bearings and the caliper and mounting bracket… sure four bolts and i could replace all those components at once with ease but now you are talking about a $200 brake job to do the front brakes VS at most $80 for a REALLY expensive set of pads a cheep set of pads i can get for as low as $30.with a hybrid or electric car where the regenerative braking system is usually the electric AC Motor acting as a charger when the brakes are applied and the resistance acts as a break but if i am correct during more aggressive breaking don’t traditional hydraulic breaks take over or step in for the braking force the regenerative system cannot supply? maybe if they put some sort of generators at the wheels that acted like brakes when you pressed the brake, then put the brake pads calipers and rotor with that assembly, MAYBE then it would be cool too have that all swapped out at once as a module… but honestly there are a lot of things we need to do before those cars become a solution too our resource shortage problem, don’t really want too get too far in on electric or hybrid cars because thats another descussion i guess. but even in that instance i think its still too easy too replace brake pads on any car.
I get the whiff of business opportunity here. I know of a gear box that supposedly has been unserviceable for years now. Certain shops could replace the bearings but if the gears were bad they had to sell you a new box. Now I see them advertising gear sets they claim are better than OEM.
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