No second start condition after changing IAC valve

[Joe]

I’m new to this forum so please forgive me if I do something wrong until I get used to all of the nuances of using this forum. So here is my conundrum: Vehicle 1999 Honda Accord 3.0 liter Vtec engine. I was having idle hunting problems which I narrowed down to the IAC valve. I changed the IAC valve but the battery was dead from sitting too long so I couldn’t test my work until the next morning. The next morning I disconnected the battery charger cables and reattached the battery cables and the car started right up and idled perfectly. I let it warm up a few minutes then shut it off. Later in the day I decided to drive it to the local gas station to fill up and then to the car wash. I went to crank it up to leave and it wouldn’t start. Cranking speed seems fine but it just won’t start. I had main relay problems in the past and had done the resolder on the cracked solder joints so I thought that maybe it was the main relay again, so I replaced it with a new one. Still won’t start. I’ve checked all of the fuses, main, fuel pump etc…all of them but it still won’t start. I’m perplexed as to why it would run fine after changing the IAC valve but later in the day it wouldn’t start and hasn’t since. I apologize for the lengthy post. I will start checking for spark and fuel next but was hoping that someone may have run across this in the past and could tell me something specific to check. Thank you in advance.

Topic

[Daniel]

You need to get the codes read. It will be very very difficult to diagnose this without pulling the codes.
If you don’t have access to a scan tool try this thing out. I bought it for home repairs and it’s surprisingly useful.

[Lorrin Barth]

Since, before the new problem, the only things you worked on were the IAC and battery, those are the places I suggest looking.

[Joe]

Thank you for your reply. I’ll update with a new reply after I’ve done some more diagnostics.

[Joe]

Thanks for your reply barneyb. The only other thing I did that was different was replug the main control module back into it’s plastic case under the dash. I’ll repost after doing some more diagnostics.

[EricTheCarGuy]

Anytime you have a no start you begin with the basics. You might also want to check over your work with the IAC to make sure you didn’t accidentally unplug something. More info on solving no starts here.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-no-start-problems

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Joe]

Maybe, but that’s the crazy part. I already had it running after changing the IAC valve and it ran perfectly. When later in the day I came back to take the car to get gas is when it wouldn’t start (crank no start). Since I had done the solder joint repair on the MCM awhile back it was still hanging by the wire so I just snapped it back in to it’s housing under the dash. That’s the only thing I did since it was running perfectly earlier in the day. Since I had problems with the MCM twice before and had already soldered it twice I just decided to put a new one in. Wishful thinking that it would be that simple. The other thing is the check engine light isn’t on and I can hear the fuel pump run for a bit when I turn on the key. It also won’t come out of park with my foot on the brake and the key on. I’ll check back in after diagnosing further. Thanks for the replies.

[Joe]

Hello…Well after doing some more diagnostics on my 99 Accord 3.0 I’ve determined that I have no spark coming out of the coil. Now I’m trying to determine why. I began diagnosing at the battery…battery voltage good (slightly over 12 volts), battery cable and terminals good, ground to engine block and body good. Spark test at plug wire…no spark. Spark test at distributor cap…no spark. Spark test at coil…no spark. I need to mention here that it appears that my 99 3.0 has an external coil that is bolted to a bracket that is close to the distributor cap. This bracket has a plastic housing where the main wire bundle coming from the firewall goes to. From there smaller wire bundles come out and go pretty much everywhere in the engine compartment that has a plug. The coil itself has a plug with 3 spades. I get 12 volts constant (with key on) from the middle one. Nothing out of the other two when cranking or at rest. When I turn the key on for the first time I can hear something running for a couple of seconds which should be the fuel pump. The maintenance required soon light (orange light) goes off after a couple of seconds. I can’t hear any relay clicks or other noises because of the stupid chime going off when you turn the key to run.

I’ve spent many lunch breaks looking through the videos but can’t seem to find one that shows how to test this type of coil or the wires going to it. It seem as though all of them show the coil inside the distributor cap. Mine isn’t like that. I put an Innova 3100 Cam 2 scanner on the car and it said that no DTC’s were stored so that was a dead end. I retraced the work I did on the IAC valve and can find no issues with that. I need to mention here again that the car ran perfectly the morning after I finished the IAC repair but later in the afternoon it wouldn’t start. I’ve also put a new main control module on it because I had previously re-soldered the old one twice so I though that might have been the issue…NOT!

OK so that’s where I’m at. Needless to say I’m frustrated but not ready to give up. So if someone could point me to the right video or white paper or something it would be much much appreciated. Thanks to all in advance…Mr. Brokeit.

[Andrew Phillips]

Have you checked all of your fuses? Have you checked for 12v at the igniter module?

[Joe]

Hey thanks for the reply. Sorry I didn’t mention fuses in my last post but check the fuses was the first thing I did when this first happened. Nothing is ever really that simple is it :-). As far as the igniter module goes…I’m not sure if it’s part of the coil assembly that’s outside of the distributor or if it’s inside the distributor cap. I don’t see any other wires going to the distributor except the coil wire. I guess I’ll pull the distributor cap tonight and see what I see. I’ll have to look harder at the distributor to see if indeed there is another plug that connects to it. I haven’t seen one but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one since I’ve been working on this thing at night with a drop light after I get home from work. I’ll post again after my next attempt at diagnostics. Thanks everyone for trying to help me out.

[Andrew Phillips]

It’s usually a small flat rectangular box with a few (4 maybe?) wires connecting to it. It is not inside the cap, probably mounted on or near the coil. It is mounted on top of the coil on my Toyota. If your coil is inside your distributor cap, as it is in some Honda’s, then the igniter should be also.

[Joe]

Thanks for the reply/post. I apologize for the late thank you but I’m using my work email so I’m basically on a M-F schedule. I don’t get the alerts letting me know someone has posted on my home email. Since the coil seems to be dead, finding and checking the igniter is next on the checklist. Hopefully the trail will end there and I can get this thing back on the road where it should be. But let me ask this…shouldn’t the plug that has three wires and plugs into the coil be coming from the igniter, regardless of where it’s located. One of those wires have to be the pulse wire or else how would the coil know when to fire. So I should be able to test for power to the coil at that plug…yes? I tried putting my test light on each connector/pin on that particular plug but all I could get out of it was 12v constant from the middle pin. Nothing when I cranked the engine from the other two. I was hoping to see a pulsing light from one of the sides which would lead me to believe the igniter was working but I got nothing. I’m not sure I’m testing it the right way though. I’ll pull the distrib cap tonight to see if those wires do indeed come from the igniter. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to do that over the weekend or since my last post. Thanks again for the help.

[Allan]

Hello 🙂

Here are how to test coil. And wiring diagram 🙂

Attachments:

• Utennavn-2.jpg
• Utennavn-3.jpg

[Joe]

Thank you for the diagrams. I will see what this test yields.

[Joe]

Well since it’s been some time since my last update I thought I’d post on the latest turn on my 99 accord EX 3.0 crank/no start condition. After rechecking the work I did on the IAC valve I see no issues with it. Like I said previously the car ran perfectly the morning after completing that work. It was later in the day that it wouldn’t start. So after checking the fuses again and installing a new Control Module, I started at the plug wires with an HEI spark tester…results, no spark.
I then checked for spark at the distributor tower…result, no spark. I then checked for spark at the coil tower…result no spark. Then checked for 12v to coil…I do have 12v to coil. I then checked to see if I was getting the switching signal to the coil from the igniter…no signal. I then checked to see if I was getting 12v to the igniter…yes I was. I believe the coil and igniter are on the same circuit so unless there was a broken wire testing one for 12v should have given me the same result for the other.

From what I can understand I’ll need a multimeter that reads Hz in order to check for the triggering signal coming from the igniter. Now I’ve just noticed that my Check Engine light isn’t coming on when I turn the key on and I no longer can hear the fuel pump which leads me back to the Main Control Module. The other thing is I cannot get the car out of park which also leads me to believe there’s no signal going to the sensor that controls that. Cant remember the name of that sensor right this second. I’ve already replaced the Main Control Module so this has me stumped because although possible how likely is it that a new Control Module would go bad while testing all of this other stuff. I think I need to verify that before I can test for the triggering signal from the igniter. On a side note the coil plug has a blue wire and 2 black/yellow wires and the igniter plug has a blue wire, a green/yellow wire and a blk/yellow wire. Is the triggering signal on the green/yellow wire on the igniter. I’ll post again when I figure out something else.

In summary:
1. crank/no start
2. fuses checked
3. control module changed (suspect because of 2 previous solder repair jobs). No help.
4. checked for spark at plugs…no spark.
5. checked for spark at distributor…no spark.
6. checked for spark at coil…no spark.
7. checked for 12v at coil…yes, have 12v.
8. check for switching signal at coil…no signal.
9. checked for triggering signal from igniter…need a different multimeter with Hz.
10. check engine light won’t come on when I turn the key on. Engine cranks fine. No discernible movement on tachometer.
11. transmission will not come out of park with key on and foot on brake.
12. Sorry for the long post…thanks again all.

[Author]

Replies