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Topic
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TL;DR
05 Neon, deep thumps/thuds over bumps
replaced upper, lower and driver-side tranny/motor mount (which seems to have stopped the thump/thuds) with AutoZone mounts now causing crazy vibrations which seems to be isolated to driver-side grill and through the steering wheel depending on the position of it
Supposedly Mopar parts, while expensive as all heck are filled with fluid instead of solid rubber
Some/good chunk of people tend to have the exact problem with AM mounts on the Neon
Bad idea to just see if the mechanic can bump up the idle?
Ok, so I have an 05 Neon SXT and just replaced my upper, lower and tranny (driver side, under battery plate) motor mount today due to deep thumps and thuds when going over bumps at ~15mph. Needless to say the upper was definitely bad, nowhere near as bad as the lower (literally was able to push the metal piece that the bolt goes through right out once I got it off) as well as doing the driver-side mount and now it seems like the deep thud/thump is gone when hitting bump but AT IDLE, which I never had a complaint about before, the grill on the driver-side shakes like a bastard, as well as in gear, at idle, depending on the position of the steering wheel that vibrates and shakes like a bastard. Almost as if I let it sit like that for too long something in the steering column will vibrate loose, literally.
I don’t know if having the shop bump up my idle would be the right way to go about it, but it does seem like it idles (as the dodgeforum.com group seems to have an ogoing issue with AM mounts causing the exact problem) real low considering if I turn the wheel all the way to the left the shaking gets almost unbearable, as if I feel like I kept it there the engine would fall through and/or possible stall. Basically just gets really rough.
From what I gathered there it seems like most motor mounts (well, the tranny-side one seems to definitely be the culprit in my case) from AutoZone seem to be a big problem? I should have done a search around before buying them all because with no way to remedy the problem outside of having the shop buy a (Mopar, supposedly the rubber isn’t as stiff and it’s POSSIBLY filled with oil or something since the old mounts definitely were hollow?) mount would suck. AFAIK, AutoZone will only return parts if not installed.
Honestly though, the crazy ass vibrating in the grill wouldn’t bother me (it’s literally the plastic, the radiator, air filter housing, nothing really seemed to be going crazy, putting some pressure on the grill made it stop completely. I could come up with SOMETHING to make that stop but as I said that doesn’t bother me anywhere near as much as leaving it go and having the steering wheel or linkage or SOMETHING in there vibrate loose and/or break.
Would it be a bad idea to have a mechanic up the idle a bit to alleviate the problem compared to eating $35+35+108 that I spent on the 3 mounts? :-/
I’m sure if any of you mechanics and DIYers replaced motor mounts, especially on a Neon with non-OEM ones you’ll most likely know what I’m talking about.
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When you change mounts in a neon you need to adjust the torque strut after. I found the procedure here.
http://www.justanswer.com/dodge/3463z-really-bad-vibration-02-dodge-neon-constant.html
Thanks for the reply, I didn’t adjust (nor measure) the distances but if I replaced the top on Saturday and it got rid of the crazy thumps on bumps and the insane vibration just started after I replaced the lower (which the actual rubber was literally destroyed) and driver-side mount do you think a simple measurement fix would cause that?
The cars in the shop now for a bearing on the driver-side (which was bad before I replaced the mounts) and he said all the motor mounts looked good, although there’s no way he ripped the air box off, battery, battery tray, battery tray mount and the actual engine mount (as that’s the ONLY way you can even see the mount itself) in the time-frame it took him to tell me they were all good.
Needless to say I did just call a Dodge dealer and he pretty much flat out said “let me guess you bought AM mounts?” so it’s definitely an issue with a great deal of cars?
He was pretty bad at explaining what the mounts looked like but he was actually quoting me $5 cheaper than the AM mount which I thought was rather odd considering the lower OEM mount was 3x the price of the AM one. I’m kinda like “wait and see if the hard rubber breaks in a little and hope the vibration doesn’t drive any nuts and bolts loose, let alone the steering wheel” or “screw it all and just have them put OEM mounts on and go from there”. I just know that as much as the OEM mounts would probably fix the crazy vibrations it’s like if they don’t I just ate another $200 or so on the parts let alone labor and it’s not like I can say “take them all off, put the old ones back on I’m not paying for something that didn’t fix the problem”.
When I encounter vibrations like this I don’t look to the engine mounts first. I normally look to engine performance first. Make sure your engine is running well before committing to the engine mounts. New mounts will not solve an engine performance issue, in fact, it can make them worse. More info in this article.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/determining-the-causes-of-vehicle-vibrations
I had an 02 Neon SXT with some idle and vibration issues. Mounts helped, the alignment procedure is very important BTW. I actually realigned the top strut mount a few times to get it just right (but the FSM procedure will get you close). Also the chassis side of my top strut mount was loose and some negotiating with a BFH helped kill the vibrations 😉
My eventual fix was a reman/reflashed PCM to eliminate the rough idle and vibrations but that doesn’t sound like your issue. What happens when you turn the A/C on or rev the engine slightly when stopped?
The alignment of the mounts is very important for controlling vibrations but the aftermarket mounts could be contributing to the problem..
[quote=”stiv625″ post=88820]I had an 02 Neon SXT with some idle and vibration issues. Mounts helped, the alignment procedure is very important BTW. I actually realigned the top strut mount a few times to get it just right (but the FSM procedure will get you close). Also the chassis side of my top strut mount was loose and some negotiating with a BFH helped kill the vibrations 😉
My eventual fix was a reman/reflashed PCM to eliminate the rough idle and vibrations but that doesn’t sound like your issue. What happens when you turn the A/C on or rev the engine slightly when stopped?[/quote]
See, that’s the thing, it’s only at idle / idle under load (obviously worse) like if I turn the steering wheel full left or right get’s to the point it sounds like the engine will actually stall and since I don’t feel like losing something that would cost $1k+ I don’t want to muck around with “well let it sit there for 2 minutes and see if it actually stalls” or anything like that. 😛
It does SEEM as though the mounts have “worn in” a bit as it’s MUCH less noticeable, although I’m not really trying to force it to do it either but it was only ever under 1k RPM. Example, I live in PA and it’s cold as hell here this winter first starting the engine seems to idle at 1k RPM but once the engine has “warmed up” for the day it idles around 600-700rpm. Of course if I let it sit for any length of hours and start it again it’ll be back at 1k RPM until it “warms up” again…
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=88807]When I encounter vibrations like this I don’t look to the engine mounts first. I normally look to engine performance first. Make sure your engine is running well before committing to the engine mounts. New mounts will not solve an engine performance issue, in fact, it can make them worse. More info in this article.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/determining-the-causes-of-vehicle-vibrations%5B/quote%5D
Hey Eric, whenever you do engine mounts, is that one of “those parts” that you only go with OEM with or have you never had someone come in complaining of new AM mounts and vibrations? I would assume if the old mounts were as bad as they were (i.e. not doing much) engine performance would have been much more noticeable then?
[quote=”wysetech” post=88821]The alignment of the mounts is very important for controlling vibrations but the aftermarket mounts could be contributing to the problem..[/quote]
Yea, it’s really a toss-up without a ton of research, but unless literally no-one bothers to do the alignment of the mounts it seems a TON of people with a bunch of different cars (but in my case I found a tone of Neon owners with the same problem) tend to have crazy vibrations after replacing OEM mounts with AM mounts.
The one thing I will say, I don’t know if the actual rubber inside is supposed to be hollow but on the OEM mounts they definitely are as I can see through them on the broken ones. There’s some speculation on if they are filled with something but I called the dealer today even and they said the OEM mounts aren’t filled with anything so unsure on that front.
On the AM mounts, it does seem like the rubber is solid as hell, and with the way the OEM ones looked, definitely hollow/filled with something, that could definitely be a contributing factor but the real question is ARE they actually filled with something.
As an overall update, I took it to a shop today and SUPPOSEDLY (there’s no way in the time it took him to tell me they checked all the mounts) they checked out all the mounts and they all looked good. I mean I know they are “good” in terms of being new, so unsure what he really meant by that.
Can you see my hesitation on mechanics, at least around here? I took it to a mechanic a couple months ago because I thought the bearing or axle was bad (whirring/growling noise almost exactly like the video Eric has on a bad bearing) and he says “It doesn’t sound like either of those, drive it till it breaks”. I was just like…..
Then I took it to a second mechanic who literally said the exact same thing. I mean seriously, do they not want my money or something?
The only reason I bring that up is because I took it to that shop today, made no mention of a bearing or anything and they said “your driver side bearing is bad, $280 to replace it” so I knew it seemed like it was a bearing. Needless to say they call me back two hours later and say “we replaced the bearing, took it for a road test and the noise is still there so we’ll have to do the passenger side next”, don’t get me wrong they said they’d eat the cost of the driver-side bearing but if I’m getting the exact same noise Eric was getting in his bad bearing video when going straight and wheel turn right, that could ONLY be something to deal with the left-side of the vehicle, no?
Either way, as I replied to someone, it SEEMS as though the mounts may have “settle/broken-in” since last night as the vibration, at least as bad as it was last night, hasn’t been heard yet in my driving today. I just hope it stays that way and they keep breaking-in.
I don’t think you mentioned the passenger side “main” motor mount – it is very hard to see/access. It is not all that uncommon for the bolt for that mount to snap and put undue stress on the strut mounts. You can inspect the bolt/rubber mount by removing a plastic cap in the front passenger wheel well and removing the bolt (support the engine with a jack before removing the bolt). In any case, I think your mounts are “breaking in” because they are under stress which is prematurely wearing them out and making the rubber loose.
Try not to get down on mechanics too much. You have to understand they have a VERY different perspective of repair than the consumer does. They’ve ‘been there, done that’ and yes, at times this can make for a cocky attitude, but other times that experience equates to competency. As for a wheel bearing noise, they can be very difficult to distinguish from tire noise which is actually the most common cause of that type of noise. Granted, they could do the test in the video you mentioned, or rotate the tires to confirm but shops get busy and so do technicians and sometimes the paying job that you know you can fix is easier than trying to figure out a noise in a customers car that ‘heard the same thing on the internet’. Once again, not making excuses, just trying to paint the picture of what life is like as a professional technician.
In the case of engine mounts. It’s an easy test. Do a power brake while another technician watches the movement of the engine. OR, use a pry bar to see if the engine moves excessively. If you don’t see movement, move on to another theory.
As I said in my last post, engine mounts are the last place I go to solve engine vibrations like this. I usually look to engine performance first before going there.
That said, it’s great to hear that you’re making progress on the vibration. You may have it solved. Keep us posted if that’s not the case.
Just to keep this updated, I took it back to the shop Saturday and the front-desk (yea, we don’t have a TON of places around here where you deal straight with the mechanics) guy took it for a drive with me first saying the same thing “Yea, I can’t imagine it being the passenger bearing if when I turn the wheel left the noise is gone but straight and right the noise is there”. Needless to say they supposedly replaced the passenger bearing and all was fixed with the growling. Charged me $260 for 2 bearings essentially since they ate the cost of the driver-side.
Needless to say, while the vibration from the mount replacement is still there, MUCH less than it was, I’m definitely done with fixing anything until spring breaks, HOPEFULLY. 😛
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