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The car is a 2002 Toyota echo, has about 230k kms, dad was driving home from work when the check engine light went off, about 15 minutes later the oil light came on. Immediately pulled over to check oil level, everything was good, no noise coming from engine that would indicate something is wrong. Drove it local all the way home without an issue. Scanned it and the codes were p0304 (misfire cylinder 4) and p1349 ( possible bad ocv or something wrong with cam). Started it up this morning the lights were on solid. I have watched Eric’s video on testing oil pressure unfortunately I do not have access to a tester. I checked spark plug 4 everything looked good. I am currently attempting to remove ocv to check for operation however it seems to be stuck in the engine. Is there anything else I should be checking?
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Spoke to a few more mechanics, one said that it looks like old sludge to him, says it looks like its been in there for a long time.
If I found that in my oil pan, I’d begin drinking early that day. No idea what that is or why it would be there.
It’s entirely possible that there’s more debris lurking in oil passages inside the engine, intermittently blocking off oil flow. I’m afraid the “diesel” symptoms you mentioned when the oil pressure light was ON were likely caused by oil starvation and what you heard was metal-to-metal contact. The engine won’t last long if this is what’s happening.
The only effective solution would be to completely tear down the engine, clean everything out scrupulously and inspect for damage. And that would be a shame because these engines normally run like troopers and seldom have issues. So seldom, in fact, that Echos are junkyard rarities unless they’ve been accidented, and a replacement salvage engine could be difficult to locate.
EDIT: If that’s “oil sludge” you should be able to pinch through it and have your fingers make direct contact with each other. From what you described, it sounded like you found a plastic sheet of some sort, and you were removing plastic chunks from the oil pump pickup tube. If it is oil sludge, I suppose it wouldn’t hurt, at this point, trying to flush out the lube system with a solvent/cleaner added to the oil. With that much sludge, it’ll probably require several cleanings and refillings before the oil drains clean.
I don’t think it was sludge, mainly because parts of it were thick, so thick it felt like I was playing with rubber, other parts crumbled like burnt paper, (I don’t know if I’m making sense or not). I will try doing the oil flush thing, nothing can hurt at this point. Maybe I will pull the valve cover off and see what’s up. I think it might be time to send her to car heaven :'(
[quote=”Evil-i” post=141196]If I found that in my oil pan, I’d begin drinking early that day. [/quote]
Lol 😆
Have you ever used this product here? http://m.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/lucas-heavy-duty-oil-stabilizer-0380208p.html it seems to me that all this would do is thicken the oil to increase the pressure. I feel like that would just make things worst no?
No, I haven’t used it. I avoid oil additives anyway.
If you’re interested in cleaning and flushing your engine’s lubrication system of all the crud, thereby possibly postponing a potential engine tear down and rebuild, you should be looking at a detergent additive that’s specifically intended to clean engines internally. As a warning, there’s a product called “Sea Foam” that people have been talking about for a few years now. There seems to be no middle ground, though. Some people swear by it, while others swear at it. Personally, I wouldn’t use it in anything I own, nor would I recommend it to someone. The volume of complaints over Sea Foam makes it look like a risky proposition.
Other people here have mentioned adding a quart of ATF to the engine to clean it, and I believe Eric himself recommends this. I haven’t tried it myself, so I’m not sure if this is a quick “fill, flush and drain” procedure, or if it requires time and mileage to work fully. I’m hoping others here will provide more info. From what you’ve described and photographed, I think what you’re looking for is something that works quickly, in your driveway without needing to drive the car, thereby minimizing the possibility of having a “no oil pressure” incident while driving. Like I said, you will probably have to repeat the procedure several times, with fresh oil and a clean filter every time, before the oil drains clean.
Oil is cheap, engines are not. Providing (and assuming) that significant damage has not already been done to the moving parts, this is a tried and true method that I have used over the years to clean out an engine.
1) Get a gallon of 10W-40 motor oil, 2 quarts of auto trans fluid (ATF), 2 oil filters, a gallon of your regular motor oil, and a quart of mineral spirits paint thinner. Some people use lacquer thinner. That probably works also, but I’ve always used mineral spirits.
2) Drain old oil and remove filter. When the drain plug is first removed, collect an ounce or so of the used oil and reserve for diagnostic.
3) Install new oil filter (and drain plug!).
4) Add the quart of mineral spirits to the crankcase and fill the rest of the way (up to 1/2 of the gallon) with the 10W-40.
5) Run the engine and let it idle until warm and then take it for a short 10-15 minute drive.While waiting for the engine to warm up, with that ounce of oil collected, pour it out over a white paper towel or tissue paper. Look at the paper under a bright light (or daylight) for metal flakes. If it’s sparkly and looks like glitter then the bearings have experienced a considerable amount of wear (could be a death knell).
After the short drive, drain and refill as before, but use a quart of ATF instead of the mineral spirits. Drive the vehicle normally for 100-200 miles, then drain the oil and replace the oil filter. Refill the crankcase with 1 quart of ATF and the rest with the regular motor oil you normally use. Drive normally again, up to 500-1000 miles, then replace the oil filter and oil as per usual custom. You may continue to add 1 pint of ATF to your regular oil henceforth, if desired.
If you do find glitter in your oil, you may choose to consider other options, as that is not a good sign. However, if there is no significant metal in the oil, you may have gotten lucky and dodged a fatal bullet.
[quote=”cap269″ post=141211]Oil is cheap, engines are not. Providing (and assuming) that significant damage has not already been done to the moving parts, this is a tried and true method that I have used over the years to clean out an engine.
1) Get a gallon of 10W-40 motor oil, 2 quarts of auto trans fluid (ATF), 2 oil filters, a gallon of your regular motor oil, and a quart of mineral spirits paint thinner. Some people use lacquer thinner. That probably works also, but I’ve always used mineral spirits.
2) Drain old oil and remove filter. When the drain plug is first removed, collect an ounce or so of the used oil and reserve for diagnostic.
3) Install new oil filter (and drain plug!).
4) Add the quart of mineral spirits to the crankcase and fill the rest of the way (up to 1/2 of the gallon) with the 10W-40.
5) Run the engine and let it idle until warm and then take it for a short 10-15 minute drive.While waiting for the engine to warm up, with that ounce of oil collected, pour it out over a white paper towel or tissue paper. Look at the paper under a bright light (or daylight) for metal flakes. If it’s sparkly and looks like glitter then the bearings have experienced a considerable amount of wear (could be a death knell).
After the short drive, drain and refill as before, but use a quart of ATF instead of the mineral spirits. Drive the vehicle normally for 100-200 miles, then drain the oil and replace the oil filter. Refill the crankcase with 1 quart of ATF and the rest with the regular motor oil you normally use. Drive normally again, up to 500-1000 miles, then replace the oil filter and oil as per usual custom. You may continue to add 1 pint of ATF to your regular oil henceforth, if desired.
If you do find glitter in your oil, you may choose to consider other options, as that is not a good sign. However, if there is no significant metal in the oil, you may have gotten lucky and dodged a fatal bullet.[/quote]
This is a good course of action in my opinion, but I would maybe also suggest pulling an oil sample from your initial drain and sending it out for analysis to see if they can tell you what the heck is on your oil because it is really, really weird looking. Has any work been done on the engine before this happened? It looks like *something* got into the engine…
I would also highly recommend AGAINST using lacquer thinner instead of the mineral spirits. Lacquer thinner may damage engine seals and cause rubber and RTV seals to soften and possibly end up in the engine.
[quote=”notoriousDUG” post=141244]I would also highly recommend AGAINST using lacquer thinner instead of the mineral spirits. Lacquer thinner may damage engine seals and cause rubber and RTV seals to soften and possibly end up in the engine.[/quote]
Excellent point. As I said, I’ve always used mineral spirits. It’s what I was taught and it’s what I’ve done. I have heard of others using lacquer thinner (as well as other solvents). In light of your advice, I also agree that it should not be used. Stick to the mineral spirits, folks. Thanks for that helpful insight.I will definitely keep that procedure in mind, I am heading out on a trip for 3 weeks so the car will be parked in the garage until I return. My dad is the second owner of the vehicle, purchased back in 2004 from dealer with about 25k kms on it. I’m basically stuck at a fork in the road. The engine has lost oil pressure twice so far (with my dad and then with me) and, from what I understand it only takes seconds to do big damage. So do I continue to pull the engine apart (which I do not have the proper tools nor the experience, but it would be a fun project), invest money and time just to have it not run much longer. Or do I just call it and invest in something newer. The old girl has done her job, my dad works very far and the last thing I want to do is send him out with a car that might fail on him. He also can’t afford to keep taking my vehicle (as it burns much more gas). If he takes it to a shop he’s going to spend more than the vehicle is worth (from what some mechanics have told me). I started it up today and it has a continuous grinding/whining noise. No oil light, no check engine light. I pulled the serpentine belt off and inspected for maybe a worn water pump or power steering pump but everything checked out fine. I was thinking it might be the starter motor not disengaging but for that long? I will give the procedure a try when I return but it seems as though she is going to car heaven. Thank you guys very much for the help though! I learned alot.
A noisy running engine after an incident of oil pressure loss sounds ominous on the surface of it, but the two may not be related.
Instead of giving up on this car entirely, your most economical path towards mobility might be to obtain a salvage yard engine and swap. Like I said earlier, Echos aren’t too common in salvage yards, and that’s a testament to their simplicity and durability. Although unexciting, they are a pretty good overall package, especially when you consider the amount of interior room in such a small car. The seating position is commendably high and comfortable, without that feeling of needing to fold yourself in half when getting in or out, like you have in many other small cars.
You might be able to find one that’s been written off in a rear-end collision, which would minimize potential engine issues up front.
http://torontojdm.com/cart.php?target=product&product_id=5373&category_id=80 found this engine here. However I can’t find any reviews from this supplier. For 300 bucks it doesn’t seem too bad. I don’t have access to a engine hoist nor a regular hoist. Is this a possible job to do in a single garage?
http://torontojdm.com/cart.php?target=product&product_id=4637&category_id=80 I actually quite like this engine more. There seems to be more of a description for this one and it only has 40k kms.
Glad to see you’re looking into an engine. Once the internals are damaged from a situation like the one you described, they’re not long for this world. As for finding an engine, I often use this.
Please keep us updated on your progress and good luck.
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