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I know I am new to the site but I am looking for thoughts from you all about a career change and if it is something that obtainable or just wishful thinking.
I have been in the Information Technology field as a system engineer going on 26 years now and tired of the bs and I am at a point that I want to go into a new direction.
I am seriously considering automotive field and focus more to the performance side of the trade.
By going this route will require substantial changes for the family and finances and will almost assuredly mean that I would have to get temp housing for myself by whatever school I go with. Another consideration is my age and making such a change later in life and if my age will hinder progress in the field.The schools I have either spoke with or gotten information on at this point are Western Tech, Ohio Tech, SAM, Wyotech, UTI/NTI , UNOH and Lincoln Tech. I am concerned about Wyotech and that Corinthian is selling to ECMC and the stability of the school moving forward.
With this being said I am looking for input from all you that are knowledgeable in the field if any of these schools or others that I have missed but might be worth a look and is the field outlook good and is this change something I should be even thinking about?
Thank you in advance with your thoughts on this,
Brian
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First, welcome to the forums. What’s your physical condition? How are you about getting your hands dirty, dirt under your finger nails, being hot sometimes, being cold other times, and even getting soaked? Auto repair is a physically demanding job, especially starting out. As you do it longer and longer, you learn ways to work smarter, not harder, and do a little less of the physical stuff. I’m 40 and am still capable of cranking out work, outworking the kids in the shop. Now guys in their 50s, they tend to start slowing down. Never saw any tech in his 60s be productive. You’re looking at investing thousands of dollars in tools to get your foot in the first shop. Long term, $30k-50k in tools is a reasonable expectation, and some have double that. I cant really comment on the schools, other than my experience with the people who have attended UTI and Wyotech, and some other local schools. I made it the hard way in the business, starting out after high school in the quick lube industry, and then going to a chain shop as a parts runner, migrating up thru the ranks. The guys who I have seen gone thru those schools have tended to be mediocre, and has left me with a bad taste on tech school grads. It ultimately rests on what you make of it and how you apply yourself. Taking things apart and putting them back together is easy. Learning to think, reason, diagnose and repair a vehicle is the challenge, and few I have seen graduate mastered that. They tend to have this attitude that since they went to school, they are ready to be an A tech within weeks of arriving to a shop. We have one entitlement baby at our shop now, he went thru and got 3 different degrees or whatever he really got at a local tech school for the different programs they had. He actually looks down his nose at others over it, and he’s the lube guy. Little does he know, the only reason he still has his job is no one worthwhile has applied for his spot. The auto repair industry is loaded with BS as well, though different than your world you came from. The guys in the shops are a lot coarser in how they interact with each other vs office life. Just be sure you’re willing to follow thru before you commit yourself.
Ill make this brief. The best advice I can give you is:
1. Learning this trade will require and investment of time
2. An investment in tools is needed to get your foot in the door normally
3. You must listen to and respect people who have been in the trade longer than you
4. “Ball busting” is part of the shop environment be sure to have a thick skin
5. Do not expect to start out as an “A” tech. This rank requires experience.
All in all, I would say think long and hard about a career change. Auto Mechanics is a passion job(you must like cars) and you must be willing to get sweaty, dirty etc etc.
As a mechanic this is the best advice I can give you.[quote=”Brimaster” post=123850]I know I am new to the site but I am looking for thoughts from you all about a career change and if it is something that obtainable or just wishful thinking.
I have been in the Information Technology field as a system engineer going on 26 years now and tired of the bs and I am at a point that I want to go into a new direction.
I am seriously considering automotive field and focus more to the performance side of the trade.
By going this route will require substantial changes for the family and finances and will almost assuredly mean that I would have to get temp housing for myself by whatever school I go with. Another consideration is my age and making such a change later in life and if my age will hinder progress in the field.The schools I have either spoke with or gotten information on at this point are Western Tech, Ohio Tech, SAM, Wyotech, UTI/NTI , UNOH and Lincoln Tech. I am concerned about Wyotech and that Corinthian is selling to ECMC and the stability of the school moving forward.
With this being said I am looking for input from all you that are knowledgeable in the field if any of these schools or others that I have missed but might be worth a look and is the field outlook good and is this change something I should be even thinking about?
Thank you in advance with your thoughts on this,
Brian[/quote]
What kind of BS are you looking to escape at your current job? As a mechanic, your whole job is putting up with BS. Service Writers underselling the labor, spending an ungodly amount of money on tools, flat rate times going down, and customers that try to get everything for free, customers that automatically think that you’re trying to rip them off because of your trade. I’ve only been in this trade for a few weeks and I’ve seen all of the above happen to the flat rate techs in my shop. Luckily my service manager chews out the service writers that undersell times because he used to be mechanic himself, and he understands the plight of an automotive technician. Other shops are much worse according to my teachers, and others right here on this forum. (I’m in Toyota’s factory training program, I work while going to school, my teachers work with a conglomerate of Toyota Lexus Dealerships in the area — and they were Toyota techs themselves for 20 years)If you have a family to look after, and a decent paying job, I would not look to enter this field. How does doing oil changes, and working the lube rack for months after graduation from UTI for 13 dollars an hour sound? That is exactly what happened to one of my coworkers, they keep promising to move him over to repair, but they haven’t obliged yet. Not only that, if you go to UTI, WYOTECH, etc you’re going to be paying close to 35-40 grand in tuition. For that amount of money you could get a bachelor’s degree at a decent school. Not to mention the tools that you need to buy in order to do the actual work. Ask yourself, is that UTI education worth that much money? You may have an education, but will you be fast?
As an automotive technician you get paid based on how fast you go. Your UTI education may make you well versed in automobile technology, but it will by no means guarantee that you will be quick. Flat rate will EAT your lunch as a new technician. The guys who clock the most hours at my dealership are the guys who have been in automotive repair for 7+ years. Most of the newer guys are struggling to get things done underneath the book time. A technician that works across from me spent 8 hours on a job that paid 3 hours. He ended up clocking 5 hours in a 10.5 hour day. Can you handle that from a financial standpoint?
As far as the performance side of things go, that is a little tricky to get into. I’ve known people who have worked in the tuning side of the industry, including a guy that owns a tuning shop. From what I gather it is not as glamorous as it seems. He actually makes a majority of his money from automotive repairs. This is a field that many try to get into, but few actually do. Your computer skills may help you land a job at a local tuner, but don’t hold your breath.
I’m not trying to discourage you, but you should look long and hard before entering this industry, especially if you’re already established in another one and have a family. Your education might be only two years in length, but actually thriving in the flat rate system will take quite a bit of time. If you were young and single this wouldn’t be such a bad career field to get into, but with a family it makes working as an auto technician an iffy proposition.
I worked in both fields tons more bs doing this. tons more. It is also a hell of a lot more physically demanding. I have to lift 90lbs on he daily. You have to be mart, quick, strong or understand leverage really well, and creative. If you are not all of these things you are probably going to have a really hard go at it. Plus if you look at tool costs they are insane especially snap-on and they are just going to get more expensive and work crappier.
If you want a sample of what you are in for on the knowledge side check this out:
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/15-Technicians-Only/54826-school-or-no-school
and that doesn’t even scratch the surface.
This is a really hard really demanding job
From what I hear, starting techs don’t make near what they used to. Somebody could correct me if I am wrong about that. The other problem as pointed out is just fresh from school you are going to get the terrible positions in places, the more seasoned techs will get the gravy jobs, and you will owe 50,000 to a school plus tools and for what ? Yes, there is BS in the IT industry, in fact every business, everywhere. However you may find yourself going from the frying pan to the fire if not careful.
Techs don’t make much coming out of school the most I heard of was $20/hr and that is because he had everything they were looking for. Experience, Schooling, Manufacturer Training, Computer Knowledge, CDL A TX, EPA licenses, Inspection/Emissions licenses. As far as I am aware its the most anyone has made right out the gate from school. So ya a huge price cut is in your future. If you have no tools expect 160-240 a week for your tool allowance. Most cheap tools will not cut it, and the ones that do will wear out faster. Especially if you are using them to do things they are not designed to because you don’t have the proper tools.
My suggestion would be keep your current job and go work in a shop on weekends for a couple of months. You will learn extremely fast there is a gigantic variance between the two.
Ouch those are some really harsh figures here a new tech fully qualified can expect to make about $27000 after are taxes it works out at about $1800 a month take home I might add that this is fully tooled up and able to use diagnostic equipment carry out warranty work etc really have to hit the ground running because they run 6 month probation so they’ll fire you with no notice for the slightest mistake.
After 26 years of working in a field to change to a field like auto mechanics is probably not the way to go the time it takes to become a well payed tech just wont work if you’ve got a family and kids to support and they’ll be plenty of younger techs who will work for less than you’re able to just for you to pay the bills.
The average pay for a new tech is 8-10 an hr. Make sure you understand flat rate and understand you normally have .3 for an oil change aka 18 mins.
You also need to look at this from an employer stand point. If you are older and you attempt to do this an employer is making an investment. You do not have as much time left till you retire so they get less productive years out of you. You are going to be slower then most new guys just because of your age. You are also not going to heal nearly as fast. That part is important because in this job you pull muscles, you break bones, you cut yourself on things. It happens you will not heal as fast as a young guy. Did I mention you also have to work with pulled muscles and cuts. With cuts you are also deep down in grim from the road, used oil, grease, etc.
I am not trying to talk you out of this I am just allowing you to make an informed decision.
I want to say our current trainee, GS, or whatever his title is, makes around $10 an hour. That’s about the norm for this area. Years and years ago(dang, I’m one of those guys now) I started out at the bottom of the barrel, making $6/hr running parts. Was even less than that at Jiffy Lube. After 6 months or so running parts, I was moved into a trainee position, and within a month I was taking my first two ASE tests. Less than two months later I was on their commission pay system and making $8/hr. Once I got into general auto repair, I started making more money and quickly moved up. Went to every training class I could, and soaked up every bit of info I could to make up for the lack of schooling. That process saved me a butt load in tuition, and let me invest that in myself, in tools. Going to school, you’re saddled with tuition costs, tool expenses, and reduced income for several years. On the flip side, I have seen a lot stuff in my 20+ years. I was involved in what led up to the recall of the Jeep ZJ’s for the shift interlock in the later 90’s. Seen all manor of characters to grace the streets, including one customer who is on death row in Oklahoma right now.
Building engines, in a general sense, doesn’t pay the bills. Engine shops usually have some cheap entry level paid guy do the work. Performance work would likely pay better, but you’re going to have to show some real experience and responsibility before they would risk $50k+ engines on you. What school in texas and where is it? Former manager I worked under until he was fired, went to work at a tech school in Longview or somewhere around there. I’d avoid going to that place solely due to him.
Figure making less than $30k the first working year, and going up after that if you put forth the effort. You could top out $60k or so, depending how good you become, and how efficient you are. One of the important things to learn, that many have a hard time grasping, is that working professionally at a shop is not anything like working on your own stuff at home. Things you might jerry rig to get by on your own stuff does not cut the mustard at a shop, or it better not! Doing the Xterra timing job is a decent test of skill for the inexperienced, so kudos for taking it on, and hopefully it’s running, lol.
Just remember, the office crowd are like elementary kids when compared to the repair shop crowd. You have to get some thick skin, not as bad as truck driving, but it’s pretty thick. Guys are pretty abrasive, and feelers can get hurt easily if you aren’t leather skinned. I’m not all that bad, but I’ve popped off some stuff around the new kids on the block, and had them get all whiney about it.
I’m a black sheep and am not convinced everyone needs to go thru school to do this. Some do, but some don’t, as they will not gain a single thing going thru the classes. Maybe I’m a maverick lol
Here is my take on this. They show the tv commercials for the tech schools, with guys working on dragsters in huge shops with endless other fantasy type imagery. Its not really like that, at all, as others have stated. I remember one senior tech talking to a newbie and them discussing a repair on a Ford Granada with an engine simply covered in half an inch of grease with all the front parts of the engine thrown in a cardboard box brought in from the customer. Cold, icy parking lot, junior tech didn’t get the lift, he got the icy asphalt, anyway, maybe do some looking around at shops and notice what is really going on. Are they as big, and well lit, and full of smiling faces as on the Tv commercials ? Lots of folks bringing in race cars for you to test drive, or is more like an angry housewife with a dented 15 year old hyundai with a phantom problem and steering problems that wont go away but she won’t replace the bald tires. Far as thick skin, well here my personal story on that. I got my first professional start by helping a guy in a two man shop because his hand was broken. Nobody would tell me how he broke it, but it eventually was revealed to me that he broke his hand punching the other tech in the face. Later I watch him take one of those orange snap on hammers and throw against a wall so hard he bent the shaft of the hammer. We just happend to be in the next room, or I might not be typing this. Not unusual stuff really. Those were the good old days and I am sure its much worse now than then.
It really depends on the shop I started at a new shop last week and every ones been really nice people making cups of tea for the techs the guys are as friendly as could be and go out of there way to make sure you’re getting on ok and see if you need help etc Little surprising given the last shop i was at but good shops to exist 🙂
Easy way for you to find out if you can do this job is go outside if you are in the USA. Lay on your driveway or the sidewalk and tilt your neck on a 45 degree angle and hold it there for as long as you can. If you have to rest your neck do so. But, lay there for 30-45 mins and take your heaviest ratchet with the heaviest socket you have and turn it with one hand and put the biggest wrench you have in your other and do same. If there is snow outside good do you think a car is going to come to your shop perfectly clean or what if it has been sitting outside over night do you think you get paid to clean it off. If it is wet even better snow melts. If it is covered in rock salt awesome do you think cars are not covered in that crap. If there is a lot of rocks do you think the parking lot where you work doesn’t have tons of rocks and or may even be gravel.
Made it through that good now do it on your knees.
Once your done that if you plan to do automobiles. Do the same thing with your back at a 75-90 degree angle like you are bent over the front half of a car.
Did all that outside you might might have the mental and physical capacity to start this trade but, whether you can succeed in it is a completely different story. School is good and I feel like if you want to climb the ladder fast its needed. But, you also have to have mechanical aptitude. If you do not have mechanical aptitude aka the ability to look at something and understand how it will come apart what needs to come off to get to it and is there a faster way then what you were taught and/or trained you will likely never amount to much if anything.
Working at home is one thing. Working for a shop is a completely different thing. Also the newer cars if you do not know electrical diag or understand how computers interpret those signals kiss 3/4 of your diagnostic abilities good bye. Yes there are scan tools and they give you codes but, they do not tell you what is causing it. They might tell you what the end result is but, not what is causing it. If you have multiple codes it might not even be anything wrong with the sensors listed and its a bad ground or power or broken wire or fuse or stuck open or closed relay.
Computer is not going to tell you that and if you don’t work for a dealership good luck with a diagnostic manual.It takes years and years and years of beating on this craft to excel at it. The fastest I have ever heard of was 3 yrs the average is 5 yrs. Age makes a difference at this because most people that do it in the 3-5yr mark are either working on the side and/or studying on the side using 90% of their free time to do so. They do not have kids running around distracting them. They do not have a wife who wants their attention or needs a break from the kids.
[quote=”MDK22″ post=124500]Easy way for you to find out if you can do this job is go outside if you are in the USA. Lay on your driveway or the sidewalk and tilt your neck on a 45 degree angle and hold it there for as long as you can. If you have to rest your neck do so. But, lay there for 30-45 mins and take your heaviest ratchet with the heaviest socket you have and turn it with one hand and put the biggest wrench you have in your other and do same. If there is snow outside good do you think a car is going to come to your shop perfectly clean or what if it has been sitting outside over night do you think you get paid to clean it off. If it is wet even better snow melts. If it is covered in rock salt awesome do you think cars are not covered in that crap. If there is a lot of rocks do you think the parking lot where you work doesn’t have tons of rocks and or may even be gravel.
Made it through that good now do it on your knees.
Once your done that if you plan to do automobiles. Do the same thing with your back at a 75-90 degree angle like you are bent over the front half of a car.
Did all that outside you might might have the mental and physical capacity to start this trade but, whether you can succeed in it is a completely different story. School is good and I feel like if you want to climb the ladder fast its needed. But, you also have to have mechanical aptitude. If you do not have mechanical aptitude aka the ability to look at something and understand how it will come apart what needs to come off to get to it and is there a faster way then what you were taught and/or trained you will likely never amount to much if anything.
Working at home is one thing. Working for a shop is a completely different thing. Also the newer cars if you do not know electrical diag or understand how computers interpret those signals kiss 3/4 of your diagnostic abilities good bye. Yes there are scan tools and they give you codes but, they do not tell you what is causing it. They might tell you what the end result is but, not what is causing it. If you have multiple codes it might not even be anything wrong with the sensors listed and its a bad ground or power or broken wire or fuse or stuck open or closed relay.
Computer is not going to tell you that and if you don’t work for a dealership good luck with a diagnostic manual.It takes years and years and years of beating on this craft to excel at it. The fastest I have ever heard of was 3 yrs the average is 5 yrs. Age makes a difference at this because most people that do it in the 3-5yr mark are either working on the side and/or studying on the side using 90% of their free time to do so. They do not have kids running around distracting them. They do not have a wife who wants their attention or needs a break from the kids.[/quote] Don’t forget, you gotta be able to work injured too!
[quote=]What kind of BS are you looking to escape at your current job? As a mechanic, your whole job is putting up with BS. Service Writers underselling the labor, spending an ungodly amount of money on tools, flat rate times going down, and customers that try to get everything for free, customers that automatically think that you’re trying to rip them off because of your trade. I’ve only been in this trade for a few weeks and I’ve seen all of the above happen to the flat rate techs in my shop. Luckily my service manager chews out the service writers that undersell times because he used to be mechanic himself, and he understands the plight of an automotive technician. Other shops are much worse according to my teachers, and others right here on this forum. (I’m in Toyota’s factory training program, I work while going to school, my teachers work with a conglomerate of Toyota Lexus Dealerships in the area — and they were Toyota techs themselves for 20 years)
If you have a family to look after, and a decent paying job, I would not look to enter this field. How does doing oil changes, and working the lube rack for months after graduation from UTI for 13 dollars an hour sound? That is exactly what happened to one of my coworkers, they keep promising to move him over to repair, but they haven’t obliged yet. Not only that, if you go to UTI, WYOTECH, etc you’re going to be paying close to 35-40 grand in tuition. For that amount of money you could get a bachelor’s degree at a decent school. Not to mention the tools that you need to buy in order to do the actual work. Ask yourself, is that UTI education worth that much money? You may have an education, but will you be fast?
As an automotive technician you get paid based on how fast you go. Your UTI education may make you well versed in automobile technology, but it will by no means guarantee that you will be quick. Flat rate will EAT your lunch as a new technician. The guys who clock the most hours at my dealership are the guys who have been in automotive repair for 7+ years. Most of the newer guys are struggling to get things done underneath the book time. A technician that works across from me spent 8 hours on a job that paid 3 hours. He ended up clocking 5 hours in a 10.5 hour day. Can you handle that from a financial standpoint?
As far as the performance side of things go, that is a little tricky to get into. I’ve known people who have worked in the tuning side of the industry, including a guy that owns a tuning shop. From what I gather it is not as glamorous as it seems. He actually makes a majority of his money from automotive repairs. This is a field that many try to get into, but few actually do. Your computer skills may help you land a job at a local tuner, but don’t hold your breath.
I’m not trying to discourage you, but you should look long and hard before entering this industry, especially if you’re already established in another one and have a family. Your education might be only two years in length, but actually thriving in the flat rate system will take quite a bit of time. If you were young and single this wouldn’t be such a bad career field to get into, but with a family it makes working as an auto technician an iffy proposition.[/quote]
I couldn’t say it better myself. I see everything he’s talking about in my position. Literally the same things. And I have a boss that is a service writer that allows service writers to undercut a techs hours when a job is done.
If you are close to a community college, or high-school that offers an adult trade program go that route. School teaches you the theoretical side of auto repair, working in the shop teachers you methods to better flat rate, diagnostics, and the things you don’t learn in a class room.
I worked as a mechanical engineer for about the last 6 years. I cannot stomach the field anymore so I became a mechanic. I went from working with people that literally didn’t fart around other people, to working with guys that openly tell stories about tossing their girl friends salad. And I’m not talking about cooking dinner.
It doesn’t bother me, however it is a change of environments. You will start out as a lube tech and the older techs will eat you alive. You can do $1300 in flat rate production on a car, and if you can’t find the transmission dipstick they will show you and take your entire ticket. I’ve seen it done. Hopefully you will have a boss that won’t allow it, but often your boss will not care because good A-techs are harder to find than someone to change oil.
You will get tossed all the absolute trash work other techs don’t want, you will be covered in oil, brake cleaner, under body corrosive treatments. You will work with people so intelligent you’ll wonder why they aren’t building rockets, and people so damn stupid you’ll wonder how they keep a job working on cars past C-tech level work.
We’re not trying to turn you off of the field. But the reality is out of ten techs I talk to, eight wish they had done something else if they were smart enough.
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