Leaks!! ’95 Civic Axle Seals or Bearings?!

[Bill Holt]

Hi, and thanks in advance for your tolerance! I have a tendency to be a bit long-winded. :whistle: I’ve tried to solve this problem without reaching out with an old question, but if you’re kind enough to bear with me you’ll be reading words which many of you have, in essence, heard several times — quite likely from people who have not attempted to independently find answers with due diligence.

I have an issue which I’ve seen addressed on Eric’s site, in general car Q&A search results, and in the few Honda-specific forums online as well: continual axle seal leaks which follow multiple replacement attempts. For me, the ‘problem’ is that none of the answers or suggested solutions I’ve encountered — which are expectedly wide-ranging in their degrees of helpfulness — provide the definitive information I need. :unsure: I’ve earnestly looked quite thoroughly, but in something of a crisis mode I’m on the quest for a ‘quick fix’ answer and I may not have discovered the perfect remedy that could be hidden in the twisted nexus of links, years-old abandoned threads, and randomly scattered, redundant topic posts. Enough introductory, apologetic babble. 🙂

At a bit over two years in, I’m the fifth owner of a 5-speed ’95 Civic LX with no service records beyond the first few Chicago-area dealership oil changes that Carfax detected. I’m riding at just under 260,000 miles. I believe that nearly everything in the car is factory-original, even the drive axles, save some evidence of trailerpark tuner efforts from a Fast And Furious wanna-be, including a cold air intake and breather tube bypass, along with a strut stabilizer bar. The transmission is a C5F. I drained what proved to be healthy-looking fluid from the transmission over a year ago, with the thought that replacing it with a known fluid might help improve shifting smoothness. Honda originally used 10W-40 in these manual gearboxes. After consulting with a high-level Amsoil guy, I added Amsoil’s 3000 Series 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil. It contains Amsoil’s “most robust additive package”, as I was told, which includes the zinc and phosphorous that were dramatically reduced for the OBDII-era changes in oil formulations. That sounded logical to me.

Well, as I said, I see many people in Honda-specific forums who have the same exasperating problem with perpetually leaking transmission oil seals. This makes me wonder why this appears to be such a pervasive issue. I’m rather meticulous and careful, but I’ve got another leak after 300 weep-free — Civic, not me 😛 — miles. How do I accurately determine the state of the sealed differential bearings? A friend who’s a fine mechanic, but not a Honda expert, took a look and said the play where the axle enters the transmission doesn’t seem excessive, but that the driver’s side seal seems too far in. Both sides leak again, and I got the passenger side to where I thought it looked nearly picture-perfect. My friend was also the first to suggest that the bearings might be worn out. I’ve been ‘in’ three or four times per side now, with a light and inspection mirror every time, and the bearings look clean. They seemed solid, if I remember tugging with a knuckle-deep finger, though their condition wasn’t the focus until now. The seals have all been OEM Honda. I had a hell of a time with the first pair because the tolerances for this transmission’s seal fit are TIGHT. No lube then, but a sparingly applied amount of :S GreenGrease thereafter, even on the inner lip and the shafts of the axles. I also believe that my check for burrs or other defects that could damage a seal were thorough. I was even going to splurge for Honda’s seal driver tools, but the parts guy at Honda Parts Unlimited told me that American Honda is in no rush to ship tools, and that a two-week wait for even a dealership to receive them wouldn’t be unusual.

I’m running quite late for work at the moment, but I wanted to get this out there. I have two more seals, but I wanted some further, hopefully highly qualified opinions before heading back into the war zone. I have no garage, and Winter is looking at New York with a knowing eye. :S

Thank you for your time, patience, and hopeful help! Peace! 🙂

Sincerely,
Bill

Topic

[college man]

The only thing I can suggest is use a socket that fits the seal and make it flush.

[Bill Holt]

Thanks, college man. As a quick aside, I was peeved twice already when the site dumped two comments I was writing. Live and learn, I guess, but what’s been written shouldn’t have to be ‘clicked and saved’ just to protect it from a data dump when scrolling or trying to enter it in the text field. I don’t expect that to change. :unsure:

Anyway, in my ‘lost letter’ I was asking if you or anyone else thought that 260,000-mile axles could have worn significantly at the inner spline junction to cause enough ‘play’ to allow a gradual seepage of oil from the differential. I know that the inner joint itself is designed for a considerable amount of all-axis, 360-degree movement to accommodate real-world driving environments, but my last thought is that perhaps some wear-induced wobble on the end of the axle where it’s seated in the casing might result in the leaks I’m seeing.

I’ve tried a few installation tool improvisations, the best of which seem to be adaptations of two different receiver cups from a ball joint/u-joint service kit I ‘borrowed’ from Advance Auto for about $200. My biggest problem is the inability to evenly and squarely drive the seals with certainty, since I’m underneath and can’t see the top of the seating area while working the seal in. I’m stopping at my first instinctive impulse this time, and I’m using some Permatex HIGH TACK Gasket Sealant. These seals need some urging to get started, but my GreenGrease may have set me up for an accidentally crooked overly deep inset that I couldn’t recover from, making me even out the seating and drive them too far.

I’ve been waiting for the sun to get my area up to our high temp today, and I won’t see much improvement over where it is now, so I’m heading out shortly to pull seals and check bearings. Got the NinjaCivic up on stands and mostly ready yesterday afternoon, but darkness and strong wind convinced me to hold out for today. Thanks again for any additional thoughts on this! I think I’ve taken matters logically further than anyone else I’ve read about doing who’s had the same issue. 🙂

Sincerely,
Bill

[zero]

The car is over 20 years old, rubber parts are on borrowed time after about 10.

There’s a bit of an art swinging a hammer and hitting whatever you’re using to drive the seal square. Best advice would be to work around and not put the full power into every hit.

[Sam Roodman]

Car is not obd2 plus that has no relation to your problem. The trick with most Hondas of that vintage is to replace the seals with a little bearing grease in the seating bore. Honda oem seals come prepared lubed on the inner ring. Use a proper seating tool and push the seal to be just flush. Insert the axle and there should be little to no visible space when the circlip has engaged on the axle stub. If I recall right on my 93 civic ex. It used 10w30, however I prefer ed to use Hondas manual transmission fluid when I could get it.

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