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First, thanks to Eric for all the videos. They’ve helped immensely the last few years.
Ok, I’ll start with details on the model and symptoms, then what all I’ve done and results from testing.
I consider myself an above average capability DIY’er. That I haven’t been able to fix it yet is really frustrating. So I turn to the ETCG hive mind.
North American 1999 Kia Sportage EX
4×4
K08A model/spec
As far as I can tell, completely stock, no mods. Bought used a couple months ago to be used as a road legal hunting, fishing, beach, light trail rig, and it has never run right for me.Currently, the main symptoms:
-Intermittent rough shaking idle at ~650 rpm, but doesn’t stall.
-Surging while slowly getting up to speed. The worst is accelerating between 30 and 65 mph, either almost no power at 2000 rpm or surging at 3000+ rpm. Once up to 70+ mph it settled at about 3000 rpm and was fine so long as it didn’t need to downshift.
-No power. Very slow acceleration, and would lose speed quickly trying to go up any kind of hill when cruising at highway speeds.
-Intermittent no or very little throttle response when starting from stop.
-It all gets worse when the engine heats up and heat soaks everything.
-Occasional stall when giving gas from stop. This happens when the engine is cold and is a newer symptom.
-Running very rich. Smell of fuel when the engine struggles and already shiny black fouling on the new plugs (only ~600 miles on the plugs). Varying long term fuel trim of -5 to -17.
-Early on it threw the pending codes P0171: System too Lean (Bank 1), P0301/302/303/304: Cylinder 1/2/3/4 Misfire Detected, P0300: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected. Haven’t seen these codes since I started messing with it.
-After screwing with it for a couple weeks, I also saw pending P0604: Internal Control Module Random Access Memory (RAM) Error, P0101: Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Range/Performance Problem.
-Most recently trying to get out to the highway for a hunting trip, it threw up P0123: Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit High Input
-Currently no codes stored in ECM.
-One of the 30A fuses in the engine bay box wasn’t blown, but looked like it had arced and melted the plastic. See pics in gallery.
-Electrical gremlins?
-Guy I bought it from insists it ran fine until he power washed the engine bay to make it look nice for sale.What I’ve done:
Many pictures of the work I’ve done so far, and some screen shots of Torque live data. http://imgur.com/a/pZxTI
-Replaced the entire ignition system. Everything. Pigtail/ignition wire harness–>Coils with boots–>Plug wires–>Plugs
-Verified proper resistance values of plug wires and coil boots.
-Replaced PCV
-Cleaned MAF with electric parts spray. Hosed out IAC with carb cleaner.
-Took vacum line off of FPR for 5 minutes. No gas leaking out.
-Replaced fuel filter.
-Connector to ECT sensor seems good.
-Cleaned and scuffed to shiny the ground points on manifold, battery tray, access plate to fuel pump, and under driver and passenger kick plates. The main ground for ECM is under the passenger kick plate. See pics in gallery.
-Recall for infamous C123 and C124 connector problems was done in 2000.
-Checked for vacuum leaks with the carb spray method. Nothing. Took the nipple off the intake mani to induce a vacuum leak to see what it would sound like and how the live data reacted. As far as I can tell, and what Torque live data is telling me (consistent -20ish at idle), there is no vacuum leak.
-Replaced TPS because of some inconsistent/spiking TPS readings at idle and while driving that seemed to coincide with the surging.
-Checked TPS with multimeter. Bad ground? https://youtu.be/PGra7zhX8U0
-Found high resistance values in various places. For example 3 ohm from negative post on battery to just a few inches away on the main clamp/connector. Difficult to get meter to read ground in expected places around the engine bay.
-Graphed live data from O2 sensors. Both do the switching voltage thing at idle, and then constant higher voltage at 2k rpm. http://imgur.com/mIZYETM
-Did dry compression test and got 120psi on all four cylinders, but….the engine was cold, I didn’t disable the fuel, and I wasn’t holding the throttle wide open. Will repeat with fuel disabled and throttle wide open, but can’t warm up engine with everything taken off.So that’s where I’m at.
I’m at a loss of how to start addressing the electrical issues. I already cleaned all the ground points. The only other thing I can think of is to replace the clamp connector on the negative battery post.
My other guesses are:
-Cracked exhaust mani, and/or problems with the O2 sensors and warm up cat. Having trouble getting to the sensors. Going to have to cut away some of the heat shield.
-Static/mechanical timing is off, either from the belt slipping a tooth or two, or the woodruff key and keyway are messed up because someone didn’t toque the bolt on the crank nose correctly.Thanks all.
Cheers!
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Been there done that and ran before the warranty expired; traded at 49,753 miles and 4 1/4 years of ownership.
The Sportage of this generation are plagued with ground problem; just when you think they are fixed one will come back and put the CEL on again. The dealerships would clean the grounds, move them and always come back to haunt them. It is amazing the CEL bulb did not burn out it was on so much, I should have gone after them using the lemon law here in Illinois to get my money back.
The 2.0L engine in this vehicle does not provide enough power to get out of it’s own way, and made it a challenge to merge on the highway, pass on a two lane road or really drive with any confidence.
My engine also ran very rich regardless and changed the plugs every 12,000 miles they would get so bad. The dealer never was able to determine the cause and kept me in new plugs every year while in warranty.
During my time of ownership it became clear to me that out of warranty this was going to be a money pit and purchased my Mustang the same day the title arrived in the mail.
I would also recommend lubricating the OEM lock on the spare tire before you may need it, otherwise it might not turn when trying to unlock.
Watch out for the front wheel bearings, they tend to go without notice; LF once RF twice.
I would also suggest the individual who sold it might have been fibbing some.
You might consider donating to your local high school auto shop class, this would be a great learning vehicle.
Apologies for the negativity, a surge of frustration regarding my own experiences with Kia has not been easy.
I had a friend who had your same.kia, took forever to get to 30 mph. They had a tune up done at a small shop.none of the spark plugs were completely seated. They were all leaking compression. I torqued them all to spec and it ran very well after that. After that it turned fast enough to charge the battery too, which it was seriously lacking in before I fixed it.
It never hurts to trace down all battery connections and taking them apart and cleaning with. A wire brush then reattaching each one securely. Keep in mind the positive goes to the alternator, starter and underhood fuse box. The ground is to the block and chassis.
Oxygen sensor may make it use more gas, & the egr being clogged can make it die at a stop light after warming up, but not this kind of issue.
I had a Dakota that did the same thing as he described. I didn’t feel like dealing with it so I took it to the dealership. They told me it was an oxygen sensor.
I always treated Kia’s like herpe’s and tried to never touch them. Even when I was a tech at Hyundai.
Holy balls, whoever worked on this thing last was a moron.
The ends of the threaded studs that hold the exhaust manifold on were rusted enough that they unscrewed from the block with the nut still on. This means that they couldn’t be screwed in far enough to crush the gasket on reinstallation. Whoever worked on this thing last just dumped a bunch of red RTV into the gap that had formed between the block and exhaust mani, instead of fixing the posts to get the proper torque on the nuts and gasket.
The gap had opened up enough, along with the crack, to screw with the O2 sensor.
New gaskets, new exhaust mani, new #1 O2 sensor.
Only had time for a short test drive, but I’m cautiously optimistic. Drove around the neighborhood a bit without surging, let it idle for ~20 minutes, no rough idle, and no CEL.
The new O2 sensor looks to be switching appropriately at idle, and this all looks good:
(plus vacuum reading at about 22)
We’ll see how she does with a heat soaked engine bay at highway speeds.
Well, I’m going to tentatively call this one solved and done.
After replacing the cracked and loose exhaust manifold, and the #1 O2 sensor, she’s suddenly very well behaved.
Took her out for a 45 minute test drive mostly at highway speeds, and there was no surging, the revs during acceleration were smooth, and NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT! Scanned it when I got back and there weren’t any pending codes either.
The only problem I saw was still a bit lacking in power to get up hills on the highway. It had to downshift and be screaming at ~3800 rpm more than I’d like on long-ish uphill climbs. Maybe that’s normal for this engine, I don’t know, this is the first time it’s run properly since I got it. It would also stumble/shake (revs would drop to ~600) for just a second at idle every minute or two.
There are still a few nagging issues that need to be fixed (AC always running, condensation backing up into the box behind the glovebox and leaking out, the temp selector dial won’t rotate), and I might make a new thread for those.
Well, now the manifold has come loose again, with all the same symptoms as before.
I torqued the nuts to what I thought was the proper spec, and of course I’m worried about over-tightening and stripping the threads in the aluminum block. Didn’t have time to replace the downpipe support/hanger, which definitely contributed to pulling the mani free again. Replacing the hanger will be part of the next fix.
Not sure how to fix this one. My first thought was loctite, but will that melt/degrade at exhaust mani temps?
Suggestions for a high temp fix in an aluminum block?
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