- This topic has 24 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 3 months ago by
.
-
Topic
-
About half way through my auto repair program. I’ve come to the startling revelation every thing I’m learning in school,I can learn working in the field, and teaching myself.
We have classes that go 8 weeks instead of the full semster. this is so the school can create classes like suspen theory and operations, then suspension diag and repair. In the diag and repair you literally spend 4 of the 8 weeks learning to plug a tire, balance a tire, and program tpms sensors. 4 weeks learning that, when class is 5 hours a day one day a week.
I learned all that in one day at a dealership. I’ve seriously learned next to nothing in my classes. It honestly seems like my school perfected scammihg students.
Also they have a Ford ASSET program, and if you arent in that the instructors treat you like second hand trash.
I learn more from one of Eric’s 20 minute videos than 8’weeks in a class at this school.
-
Replies
-
That’s exactly why I advocate in real life and on this forum for people to learn this trade on their own. It’s not a walk in the park to avoid school and deal with teaching yourself properly, but other people experience continues to tell me (as does yours) that it isn’t worth the cost/debt of a formal education. Especially true in this case when 80% of employers really don’t care about that, they’re just happy to get someone who’s actually competent (which most of them know has little to do with having gone to school).
People constantly resist my advice on the subject because they’ve been convinced that you can’t survive adulthood and get a good job without school. This is unfortunately true in many fields, but auto repair is one of the few where that still doesn’t ultimately matter. It’s tough though because most younger people I interact with or work with are just not self starters who can look at a situation and figure out what needs to be done. I’ve been promoted at my job to take these types under my wing. They can take notice that they haven’t checked their phone lately, but can’t notice a mess in the corner and decide to clean it up on their own accord (when their job is to clean).
These types, I don’t know that they can get their shit together enough to be bothered to learn from formal schooling, let alone create their own curriculum to study from. Like I was saying to a co-worker about one of these guys lately “it’s like he just doesn’t get what work (in the sense of ‘being employed’) is”.
On a totally separate note, I finally shot some good video of driving my “tech school lab class” car and thought you might be interested. It’s the car in my avatar picture that I rebuilt a few times while teaching myself how to understand and work on cars:
Maybe this isn’t so far off topic. Like tuner shops have a shop car that is meant to demonstrate what they have the ability to do, that car is like a demonstrator of my education.
If they really aren’t teaching you stuff you need to know I would get your money back and quit it and learn yourself so long as you can actually push yourself to study after a hard days work. Reason why I advocated school was where I went at UTI in Exton, PA they taught you pretty much everything you could ever need to know, for cars anyway, as long as you paid attention and actually studied to learn not just to memorize and pass a test. I constantly use that experience to fix complicated issues that a lot of the “more experienced” guys can not. Though this is all information that can be gleamed through books, videos, and real life. The difference is though the quality of the education I got was equal to if not more then 3-5yrs worth of experience both studying and real life in a 1.5 yr period.
Simple example is failure to replace a crank case oil filter/seperator in a truck that was overlooked because they “never” go bad by 3 technicians one of which have 10+ yrs experience and the other two 5+ yrs caused $7,000 dollars in parts and 9 days of my time to fix, warranty procedures had to be followed. Now I have a 2yr old truck same issue only I got it before other people got to it. I am putting the exact same parts on it as well.
My point is just be aware some things people learn in the field are not always accurate or right. Also never rule out a part unless you have checked it thoroughly sometimes even more so then warranty calls for.
I couldn’t agreed more. The lay out of the classes is designed so that 85% of your grade is from labs. Labs where three people stand in a group and watch a fourth person does everything. And there seems to rarely be enough time for each person to do each procedure.
I argued with an instructor that tried to tell me fluids are compressible, and objects in a straight line continue in a straight line. I brought my physics book from engineering school and he said “I didn’t mean compressed, I meant pressurized, and the object is in space”. I said “credit my test 20 points then”. No one else got those points because none of them questioned it.
My mind was blown. Fopeano you and I think a lot a like. I taught myself 99% of what I learned in engineering school. That’s the whole point of college. Just about 9/10 dealerships I talk to don’t advocate school. People were amazed when we were in brakes class. I had the labs done in about 1/50th the time other students did. I would look at them and say “if this is difficult, and stressful in here, this probably isn’t the field for you”.
I love the video Fopeano. Keep those coming!
Mdk22, there is a school about 2 hours from me that is fucking amazing. Nationally ranked in auto repair, several manuf training programs, and they teach like you learned. The school in my area (next closest is the school with the amazing program), is a joke. I feel like I’m running on a treadmill each day I’m in class. If I lived closer to the other school in my state I would be very happy and learn far more. Sadly my options are limited.
The theory and operations classes are great for people,with very little know how, and 0 ability to teach themselves. The diag and repair classes we have are seriously a scam.
Well if you are going to learn on your own and want to learn some serious diag I would suggest paying for a subscription to Scanner Danner Premium Youtube Channel and I suggest you get his book as well. I learned almost everything he taught in school but, even then like ECTG I still learn something new almost every time I watch a video. The way he diags electrical is extremely quick and rarely wrong. Since a large majority of diag is electrical based any more it is a great place to start.
If you don’t want to pay you can watch just is free youtube channel which is what I do.
Another book for someone like you that can learn on his own is:
The cheaper versions are not normally the whole thing. It is a very comprehensive and daunting book. But, it will cover all kinds of things people never think about and is great for machining knowledge. There is so much information in the thing it is actually kinda scary.
Thank you mdk22! I planned on learning and studying even if I finished my program. This is a field where I believe you still learn something new, and improve every day even after years on the job.
I plan on studying and looking over every decent text you guys recommend. I actually have a machinery handbook. I used it a ton for engineering. I keep one in the drawer of my box. A bunch of the younger techs thought it was worthless, the older techs and I laughed at them for thier ignorance.
I would also suggest:
For Big Rig Diesel Engines:
Medium/Heavy Duty Truck Engines, Fuel & Computerized Management Systems by Sean BennettWhile it is mainly centered around big rig diesel engines a lot of it will carry over to diesel engines for pickup trucks and some will translate over for smaller diesels. Most pickup truck diesels are just the smallest versions of big rig diesel engines.
I’m really hoping I don’t have a similar experience. I just enrolled in my community college’s auto tech program, and I don’t really know what to expect.
[quote=”KeithLG” post=140074]I’m really hoping I don’t have a similar experience. I just enrolled in my community college’s auto tech program, and I don’t really know what to expect.[/quote]
I wouldnt worry. Like I said there is a program about 2 hours from me that is incredible, nationally ranked, GM cert prof, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, ford, people drive 90 to attend that school. The school that is close to me, and works for what I can commit is a joke. Having said that the theory and operations classes aren’t terrible. It’s the diag and repair, among the other classes they force on us that make me laugh.
I went to school because I needed documented training time and experience to get my aviation mechanics license. I learned some theory I didn’t already know, and alot of federal regulations that have proven mostly useless in real life, and a very small amount of practical, useful skill.
In school, and also in life, I’ve learned that some people are naturally mechanically inclined. Others are just there because it sounded like a good idea.
In a carburetor overhaul lab I showed a fellow second term student that most fasteners turn counter clockwise to loosen. They probably should have known that before enrolling in school if they want it to be their career. Even my wife knows ‘righty tighty, lefty loosey’.My suggestion to the OP, and anyone else in a trade school, go get a part time job in your intended industry. Maybe just start cleaning or being the shop monkey, LOF and busting tires. I know I learned more in 1 month on the job than 2 years in tech school.
The program I’m in, as a whole is laughable. I was forced to take two classes that teach what wrenches are, the difference between fwd, rwd, and awd. I argued I didn’t need intro classes on auto basics, and how tools work. But to get into the program every student has to take the intro classes. Except Ford ASSET students, they can waive the intro classes that teach students what 5W30 oils means.
It’s literally like my program feeds on students who want to wrench on cars as a hobby, and banks on their naivenes to make money.
Take the knowledge you have know, the recognition that your not learning anything, and stop wasting your time.
Save your education funds and work a real job for a while. When you bust through the shop monkey level, use your educational funds to further your career. You’ll know by then what can be beneficial to you.
TBH I would go in there and tell them straight up what you just told us and record it. Check the laws in your state to see if both parties need to be aware of a recording or not. Because in VA they do not in PA they do as long as nothing has changed in the past 6 months. I would then tell them either they pay for you to go to a proper school (if that is what you want) or they give you back all of the money you spent there. Tell them if you refuse I will go to the media and a lawyer. Not just one but, both.
If you can record without there knowledge keep true to your word. If the lawyer can’t help you the media would love to have a field day with that. If they are truely a for profit school they will refund your money as it is a much cheaper alternative then a tarnished public image.
I hate to be mean but, when I pay good money for something and expect it to be good for me and it is a waste of my time I tend to feel cheated. When I feel cheated play yard rules go out the window and hard ball becomes the way. Maybe this is why my tool truck guys love to hate me. But, it is also why I have good quality tools and not much else in my box.
The school is trying to cut the program. Each semester less students sign up and the only thing keeping it on life support is the Ford ASSET program. And that’s dying a slow death. Students don’t want to be tied into a program for two years and chained to one manufacturer once they are done. Especially when they can take theory classes and be done after 8 weeks.
Literally 40 dealerships in the area are very vocal about students avoiding the program. The few that support the program struggle to find employees. I used my Gi Bill. To pay for school so I wouldn’t get any money back. But I would enjoy seeing the scam artist exposed.
There might be a way to challenge the program, or parts of it. Several years ago when I took the standard 1st year pre-employment type class, we found out at the end of the year we could have challenged portions of it. The math and science portions were very simple and could have saved many of us time sitting in the class.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.