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I need help badly here. I have the 2.4L inline-4 engine There is VERY little info about the specific engine this mini-van has, even the factory service manual isn’t being too helpful. I have included all the relevant info to this issue.
BACKSTORY: Grandparents driving on highway, notice steam + pegged hot temps (20C weather, 70mph). They pull over at a gas station, text me. I get there with tools expecting blown upper hose. Instead i am greeted by a dude who was a mechanic for 40+ years. He spotted that the freeze plug on the passenger side front of the block had developed a rust hole. My grandparents do NOT keep up with maintenance on their vehicles, even with me offering my free services. The coolant that is in there is likely the same that was in it when they got the radiator replaced. They have had the heater core unclogged by random mechanics twice before.
WHAT I DID THUS FAR: Pulled both freeze plugs on the front, installed new ones, system is now water/pressure tight with no leaks. I replaced a rusted out inlet pipe and unclogged the heater core. I flushed the system with water and a small amount of CLR. (water+CLR the first flush, every flush after was just water) I waited for the thermostat to open before shutting off the car and draining. Cap was OFF for the flushes and i was just using spill-free-funnel.
The thermostat is a cheapy one-fits-all type which barely fits in the hole, it was sealed with grey RTV instead of a gasket. The hard line heater hoses were replaced with generic heater hose. The aforementioned rusted out inlet pipe was aftermarket (replaced with OEM). I re-used the thermostat and it functions as intended.BLEEDING TRIALS AND ERRORS: So now it comes time for the final fill / bleed.
First i try what everyone online says works with this car: spill free funnel the same way ETCG does in his videos. The result of that was: constantly fluctuating water levels in the funnel once the thermostat opens, overflowing, air burbling in the hoses after shutting it off and coolant level suddenly dropping. Also you can feel large pockets of air zooming past in the upper rad hose, but NOT exiting the rad cap. Fan operation is strange, sometimes they kick on when its at 1/4th and they always kick on and stay on at 1/2+ (on the temp meter). This method FAILED. After 3 attempts the car still overheats when you drive it, heater is intermittently hot / cold. And when you turn off the car you can hear burbling from the upper rad hose. Must be still a large pocket of air in the system that this method cannot extract.Second i try the other method, fill to full when cold, heat up, let it cool down, fill up, repeat. This only caused the van to overflow the overflow tank. I then tried both of these methods with the front end / side of the car jacked up. Same results.
Third I sourced a FSM for the vehicle, and it says and i quote:
“Air can only be removed from the system by gathering
under the pressure cap. On the next heat up it
will be pushed past the pressure cap into the coolant
recovery bottle by thermal expansion of the coolant.
It then escapes to the atmosphere in the coolant
recovery bottle and is replaced with coolant on cool
down.
To effectively deaerate the system, multiple thermal
cycles of the system may be required.
NOTE: Deaeration does not occur at engine idle—
higher engine speeds are required. Normal driving
will deaerate cooling system.”That sort of explains why both previous methods did not work. However when you try THIS method it also does nothing. The car gets up to the tick just before the large red tick. And then if you don’t put it in neutral keeps going up. The instant you turn off the car the temp goes down. I tried this 4 times. Driving up and down my neighborhood. SURELY this doesn’t mean i should drive the car pegged on hot to remove air? The FSM lists no block-bleeding screw or plug (earlier models used the coolant temp sensor for this purpose).
POSSIBLITIES: Head gasket leak into coolant jacket caused by initial overheat? No smoke from tailpipe, car runs smooth, no overflowing coolant unless using the spill free funnel. Rusted away water pump impellers? I see coolant circulation as soon as the thermostat opens.
I am pretty close to taking it to a mechanic, but i would rather do some cheap tests before forking over the cash for a tow.
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Replies
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Hopefully, they didn’t blow the head gasket or ruin the head.
Here’s how to check:
http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/chrysler/2.0L-2.4L/how-to-test-for-a-blown-head-gasket-1On difficult to bleed cooling systems , it helps to drill a small hole in the thermostat.
On thermostats with a little brass piece dangling, you can just snip that off and it will serve the same purpose as the hole.
One very important part of the process is that the heater should be on max while bleeding.
If you have ramps, they may elevate the front enough to help move the air out.
A very nifty bleeder adapter is this, which has been recommended by nightflyr in another thread
http://jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_Cooling_SightGlass.htmlThis site also has some ideas for bleeding the cooling system of “2.0,2.5 and similar” Chrysler engines.
https://www.allpar.com/fix/radiator-purge.html
This is a detailed write-up on the spill proof funnel method
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Burp-your-cars-cooling-system/[quote=”Bonnieman” post=192282]Hopefully, they didn’t blow the head gasket or ruin the head.
Here’s how to check:
http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/chrysler/2.0L-2.4L/how-to-test-for-a-blown-head-gasket-1On difficult to bleed cooling systems , it helps to drill a small hole in the thermostat.
On thermostats with a little brass piece dangling, you can just snip that off and it will serve the same purpose as the hole.
One very important part of the process is that the heater should be on max while bleeding.
If you have ramps, they may elevate the front enough to help move the air out.
A very nifty bleeder adapter is this, which has been recommended by nightflyr in another threadThis site also has some ideas for bleeding the cooling system of “2.0,2.5 and similar” Chrysler engines.
https://www.allpar.com/fix/radiator-purge.html
This is a detailed write-up on the spill proof funnel method
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Burp-your-cars-cooling-system/%5B/quote%5DThank you very much for the quick reply. I have already checked for signs of head gasket failure, no coolant in oil, exhaust, and no “boiling” coolant even when the fans kick on.
I had already seen the 2.0, 2.5 and similar link, the 2.4l is a different style of engine than those. The rad cap is the highest point in the system. Also there is no bleeding screw near the thermostat.
The heater was on, blower motor set to off. During one of the bleeding attempts it blew very warm, which is promising. I am now thinking the thermostat brass bleeding valve is wedged in place and cannot open. So I will attempt to remove it, thanks for that advice. Should i try bleeding the system with no thermostat and reinstalling that (since most of the coolant is lower than that point, it wouldn’t be a huge change) after i verify no head gasket issues?
UPDATE: There is indeed a coolant temp sensor right on the thermostat housing. Will remove, clean, fill, reinstall, etc. And then i will get back to you guys.
UPDATE #2: The coolant filled up all the way to the coolant temp sensor hole, I then reinstalled it. The car did the exact same thing. Filled with coolant, got to quarter temp, fans kicked on then off after a few seconds, car then got to halfway, spill free funnel overflowed. Upper rad hose pulsing every half second or so.
🙁
Problem i think is solved. Removing the thermostat caused the car to run just fine at the same temps. Had no pulsing in the upper rad hose.
I think the thermostat wasn’t opening, and as a result causing the inter-block coolant to turn to steam. That steam then escaped out of the bleeding valve on the thermostat, and is what i felt in the upper rad hose.
Will road test to make sure.
EDIT: Road test was successful.
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