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Here are some pictures of the current state of the timing belt in my 2004 Audi A4. It’s a quattro sedan, 1.8t engine, 6 speed manual. As it turns out, this car is a victim of title washing, so I have absolutely no idea when, where, or if the timing belt was replaced. But, I am not really all that well versed on timing belts, so that includes their visible condition.
Can anyone let me know their opinions on the condition of the belt?
Thanks!
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It looks like it will be ok for the time being, possibly tens of thousands of miles. Hook your finger behind it and rub on the teeth to make sure there are no fibers coming loose and that you don’t feel teeth peeling away from the spine of the belt.
Will do, thanks! I also love the car in your pic. I’ve been wanting a Mk2 GTi since I was 14. I’m not having much luck finding one in good enough shape to put money into.
I’m going to check out your videos right now.
I’ve worked with timing belts for 35 or so years and unless one is actually dry rotted to oblivion I can’t eyeball one even with hands on and tell you if it’s good or not.
A belt can look and feel like new and still break the next day.
Ok, well… that being said, let me ask you this-
Since I don’t really want to drain everything and pull the front end off again for quite some time, with your experience and just looking at this… let’s say it is your car… what would you personally do? Replace it just to be extra sure or hold off a bit? These varying answers is exactly what I was wanting. I want to know why yes and why no and everything between.
On a car with an unknown belt history I replace the entire belt kit which includes the water pump, idler pulleys, tensioners, and oil seals if the car is aged or high miles. This is especially critical if the engine is an interference type. An interference engine means that if the belt snaps (and there will be NO warning…) the intake valves in the cylinder head will strike the pistons as they rise in the cylinder bores.
This bends the valves, nicks the pistons, and means it’s time for a cylinder head rebuild or replacement. In more rare cases it’s possible that valves hitting the pistons can crack them, bend a connecting rod, ruin a lower end bearing, etc.There’s a number of factors regarding belt life. It’s not just age. There’s also miles, oil and coolant vapors or leaks in the belt case, worn tensioners or water pump, environmental extremes of heat and cold, etc.
In some DOHC engines that are supposedly non-interference (called free-wheelers) it’s possible to have valve damage on those but for a different reason. The valves may not hit the pistons but one camshaft may get out of sync with another and valves will clash with valves.
Another downside to a belt breakage (even assuming a free-wheeler engine) is that a belt may snap and the car will stall instantly. If someone is tailing you at freeway speeds the next thing you know is that your car has been rammed from behind and surviving becomes an issue. The same goes if a belt snaps while you’re crossing the train tracks or a busy street. Or the car quits in a part of town where half the people who live in that ‘hood are on parole.
Unless there are records to prove a belt job has been performed it should always be assumed that is has not and should be done immediately.
A few years back a guy asked my opinion on a Honda Civic timing belt. The water pump was leaking a little and coolant had gotten onto the belt. The belt looked as new but I advised him to replace it or run the risk. He cleaned the belt up and reused it along with a new water pump.
Two days later that belt broke; bending every intake valve in the cylinder head. He then had to pay me to rebuild the head and all because of cutting corners on a 30 dollar belt.Some friends of mine bought 4 year old Honda Civic from the local Honda dealer. The car only had 50k miles on it and was one-owner. Two weeks later they head for a ski vacation in NM (we’re in OK) and a few miles outside Boise City, OK the belt broke. This stranded them in a one-horse town with no parts which had to be ordered out of TX.
Take a look at a map of the OK Panhandle and you’ll see why Boise City is no place to get stuck. Hope this helps you out.(Trivia about Boise City. It was the only city in the U.S. to get bombed during WWII. A nighttime training mission went wrong and a B-17 dropped some dummy bombs on it; doing a little damage there. One went into the courthouse, another hit a gas truck, etc. They still have a bomb on the courthouse lawn. It’s not explosive but 25 pounds dropped from way up can do a lot of damage……) 🙂
Yeah, the thing is that I have no earthly idea the last time it was changed. It really does look like it’s in great shape and the teeth look and feel fine, but I’ve been worrying about a blown engine because of the belt. I have broken one timing belt, and I was lucky. It was non-interference. I was 986 miles from the 200,000 mile point where I was going to replace it, and it snapped on me before I got to the even 200,000. I knew it was non-interference, so I wasn’t all that worried, but I didn’t think it would just go for no good reason and without warning like it did. It looked so/so, but when it snapped, I didn’t feel a thing. I was at a stop sign. I had my music on at a pretty low volume, just enough to not be able to hear all the engine noise. I put it in first gear, let off the clutch a bit and the guy on the sidewalk kind of jerked a bit and looked horrified, then walked away fast. I had no idea why. I then began to wonder why I wasn’t moving. My car had died. That’s how quiet it was… no drama inside the cabin. I was also lucky enough to be close enough to home that I was able to push my car home. A Subaru is a lot heavier than it looks, I’d like to tell you.
Notice how LUCKY I got in all of that? I doubt I’ll have a repeat of that kind of luck. So I am so torn. I have been looking at new heads just for fun and they’re not all that terrible, but it’s a mess I don’t want to get in. It’s an Audi A4, so I’m sure Fopeano knows the interesting method of removing the front end of the car to get to that area. It’s a great concept, it is a lot easier than I would have imagined, but it does take time, and I don’t have as much of that as I would like. And I need to get all this stuff done before it gets too cold.
That is also a very interesting story about the bombing. If no one got hurt, then that is hilarious. If someone got hurt but they ended up ok, it’s a shame, but interesting. If someone died, that’s awful. I’m hoping that nobody got hurt. Have you seen the pictures of the nukes hanging from their parachutes in a tree after a B-52 jettisoned them as it was crashing? It was during operation Chrome Dome, so those nukes were live. Only recently was it declassified that one of the nukes was pretty much a sneeze worth of energy away from detonating. It had somehow gotten through every redundancy backup put in place to keep from accidental detonation and the very last one was so, so, SO so close to firing and lighting the place up.
Well, you’ve been lucky no doubt about it. At some point everyone’s luck runs out though. The thought of the expense of repairing an Audi with a broken belt is a bit depressing. Left up to me, my preference would be to make all engines free-wheelers but the engineers have reasons for their designs.
As to the bombing, no one was hurt. There were some scared people and in spite of the notoriety and embarassment I think the bomber crew went on to serve with distinction in the war.
“At some point everyone’s luck runs out though.”
That’s my problem. I have horrible luck most of the time. That Subaru spoiled me a bit. It broke so little that any repair on other cars seems like such a ripoff to me and I feel like other cars are all awful, but they’re really just normal cars with normal car issues. In the 6 years of owning that car, I have put less money into it between registration, purchase price, regular maintenance, etc. COMBINED than I have in just one year of maintenance on my Audi.
[quote=”Bluesnut” post=145146]I’ve worked with timing belts for 35 or so years and unless one is actually dry rotted to oblivion I can’t eyeball one even with hands on and tell you if it’s good or not.
A belt can look and feel like new and still break the next day.[/quote]
This, while not necessarily being an answer. Is the best approach to take. You really have to do the math of the situation and ask yourself if the cost of replacing an unknown component outweighs the cost of having to replace something like the entire engine.
The cost of maintenance and repair is directly proportionate to the original sticker price of the car.
It’s rare that you can determine a timing belts condition by looking at it. I usually go by the drive belts and their condition. If they’re dry rotted and cracked, I recommend a timing belt. The SHOULD get replaced at the same time, but I have seen old drive belts used when a timing belt was replaced.
Also, timing belts stretch over time. As a result, the mechanical timing of the engine can be effected. As the cam rotates, the valve springs push back against the cam in the opposite direction. If there’s enough slack in the belt, the cam will not spin smoothly. This can cause idle and performance issues.
I actually think this has more to do with timing belt service intervals than wear. I also think this is why many manufacturers use automatic tensioners on their timing belts. However, these tensioners can fail and often should be inspected or replaced when replacing a timing belt.
In summary, if you’re not sure, replace it to be on the safe side and set the correct tension if there isn’t an automatic tensioner. If there is an automatic tensioner, make sure it’s working correctly and replace it if it shows signs of wear.
Good luck.
Underneath the number “13” on the belt, (how appropriate), towards the right side of the pictures, it looks like there might be a split through one of the teeth. It shows up best in your first photo.
As many others have said, your best course of action is to replace the belt. Spend a little now, or possibly a lot more later.
Great call, I didn’t see that. I went out and looked at it and it was just some build up of dirt. But I did feel the teeth while I was looking at that and they were kind of wiggly. Knowing this car’s dark past, it wouldn’t surprise me if the timing belt on it right now was taken from another car.
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