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heat it up and just b easy and win it is hot i would tap the center of the bolt while trying to turn it
I don’t have access to an oxy-acetylene torch so I’d spray PB’s a couple of times over a 30-60 minute period to really get it to soak in, start the car up and let it idle for a while (or rev and hold at 2000-2500 rpm ) to bring it up to operating temp. I’d use the box end of the wrench. Ususally works fine.
Hey guys. Thanks for the input!
I bought a torch today. Heating it up real nice. Spraying PB. Will cycle over 30-60 minutes, as suggested.
Any reason why you can’t get a socket on there, rather than a wrench? A socket with an extra-long breaker bar would seem like a good approach for this.
The only reason I would think to use the box end is that the turning fulcrum is closest to the head of the bolt, but I would also agree that a breaker bar may help. I would still be careful to not break the head off. I would hit the head of the bolt as you are turning the bolt. Another penetrating fluid to try is what Eric uses sometimes. Transmission fluid mixed in with a solvent. Transmission fluid has great creep properties.
[quote=”Dunebasher” post=138072]Any reason why you can’t get a socket on there, rather than a wrench? A socket with an extra-long breaker bar would seem like a good approach for this.[/quote]
The biggest issue I am having is that both bolts are no longer 12mm.. 12mm is in fact too large now. This is perhaps my greatest complication in my endeavors to get these off.
Perhaps using a 6 point socket instead of a 12 point socket would give more purchase. Also maybe trying vise grips locked to the bolt head with a piece of pipe over the screw end of the vise grips (for leverage) and attempt to turn the bolt while heat is applied. If all else fails, grind off the bolt head and wrench out whats left after the manifold is off. It goes without saying that in any case the bolt(s) should be replaced.
I was going to say that this looks like a classic case of penetrating oil, a bit of heat, and an impact driver. But since the bolt heads are buggered to the point where a socket doesn’t fit snugly anymore, it looks like it’s time for Vise-Grips and profanity. You could try catching one of the flats with a chisel and hammer-turn the bolts out, but in your particular application, those threads are probably seized tighter than an amphibian’s sphincter, and it’s very likely that the heads will break off, no matter which method you try. The combination of steel bolts, an aluminum heat shield and an iron manifold is bad news when it comes to taking them apart.
I am just going to chime in here because it seems like you are digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole atm. Get some acetone aka gf nail polish remover (make sure it says acetone and u can also normally buy acetone from a place like home depot often in the paint isle) and some atf fluid mix them together and use that for your penetrating oil. They will separate so always mix before using. Be careful as this will eat paint and use brakleen to get it off any plastics. It is an extremely corrosive combination but, it works on straight metal.
Then wait 1-2 minutes and tighten the bolt. This will cause a sudden increase in pressure and force the home made penetrating oil in further. Then heat the bolt we are talking 5 mins with that propane torch of straight heat on the bolt. Tap it with a hammer. Do not kill it just tap it. Let it cool then try to remove it. Doing that should compress the rust and acetone in it enough to fracture the rust and penetrate most if not all of the threads.
Some options you have because the head is messed up:
Impact if you have one even if manual.
Flank drive aka 6s type socket/wrench that grabs the flats and not the points
Beat a slightly smaller 12 pt socket on it. Craftsman are good for this. Use it to take it off.
Use vise grips.
Turbo aka fluted, spiral, socket and if impact style beat on if not push on ratchet or socket and use box end to try and remove.
Cut the head off with a hack saw and use a file to taper the top so it looks like a bolt. clean up the threads with a tap and install a steel locking nut or nut and lock washer. Do not use nylock as there is a possibility of it melting.Just my 2 cents. Btw, next time penetrating oil drive the car. More penetrating oil drive the car. More penetrating oil and drive the car. Then try this. Also invest in a good penetrating oil I suggest silikroil its safer then that home made concoction and won’t eat plastic and isn’t horrible to paint.
^^ At the moment, I can hammer a 7/16″ wrench on to the head. The issue I am having is that the ANGLE of the manifold.. gives me a TINY bit of room to tap with the hammer. My wrench is small. If I go all-out on elbow grease.. I have the most slight bit of play on fitment to the bolt head, even with my hammering.
I would try the chisel and hammer, but I can only do this for slight periods of time, as I am in a residential neighborhood and any “noise” I make.. COULD be a problem, with cops rolling up. “Sir, what are you doing. We have received a complaint.” 5 minutes is pushing it. (Great, since the heat of the day is over in the evening.)
A socket makes much, much more sense. I actually wonder.. if I can ha,,er on a 7/16″ 6-point socket. And hope that I don’t permanently “round off” the heads.
I saw one video where penetrating lube and the guy let it sit for a WEEK. At this point, I have not hit it with the heat, since I am saving that for when its time to boogie. I want it hot to get the metal relaxed, but then I want to try to go easier, since steel weakens when heated. That said.. I am re-making my ATF/Acetone mix every night.. Since I am doing my very best to get it under that round circle under the head.
Obviously, I want to do this before I continue head removal.
All of this said.. Should I:
A. Buy a longer wrench ? (*I don’t have much room to turn it, with the things from the head in the way. Spark plug sleeves)
B. Buy those Irwin contour Vise Grips and let it be on there as tight as possible, ready for some great breaker bar and heat app?– QUESTION: It has been said that I should have got “Map Gas” (Yellow) instead of “Propane” (Blue.) (Of course, this the first time I ever did this, so I am proud of myself.) I also heat the bolt AND THE METAL AROUND IT before I try to tap it loose, GENTLY.. with that hammer. SInce once it turns the first time I don’t have to go hard.. “Elbow grease” is fine, but I don’t want to round off OR SNAP this bolt. I really am hoping that if I am patient, I can get it.
C. Is my ATF/Acetone (and then PB, I really don’t see what WD-40 can do here) every night a good strategy? I try to aim a minimal amount, since, again, that circle under the bolt.. Yes, I agree it is likely very tight.
????
I told you how I would do it. Take it or leave it. Your chance of harming the bolt with a propane torch is very very low. Also mechanics heat those things cherry with a oxy acetaline torch all the time and take them loose propane will not hurt it.
Map gas will burn the heat shroud and melt aluminum but, you can use it if you want.
The way I said to do it is the best way to approach it if you are at home with limited means.
If the bolt head snapped off, it wouldn’t be the end of the world, as you could remove the manifold and then either wrench out the stub with a vise grip pliers or if you’re getting the head machined the machine shop can remove it. You could also perhaps leave the manifold on and remove the head and manifold as an assembly and then deal with separating them once out of the vehicle (or again let the machine shop do it). In any event you should replace the bolts so it doesn’t really matter if you destroy them at this point. Just my 2 cents.
For clarity, I have included Eric’s video. Note that he heats what the bolt goes through (the nut) and not the bolt itself.
https://youtu.be/zYSAAyhwFmkSide note : The method that you end up using will be based on what tools and materials that you have on hand. And no matter how careful you are to not break off the head of those bolts, they may still break. This happened to me while replacing my exhaust. I ended up having to cut and drill out 3 flange bolts. It was a fight the whole way to the end of the project but it got done. Made a HUGE difference in performance of the vehicle so the struggle was worth it. B) Good luck. Keep us posted.
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