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Hello dirty people!
I’ve finally succumbed an’ I’m here to cry uncle. Hoping for insight, suggestions, a path not taken…and for those electrical enthusiasts out there, this might be fun! Haha…
Background:
Got a 91 Honda Civic wagon FWD. Bought it a couple months ago, from a guy, off craigslist. I won’t go into the long story, but suffice it to say I was told so. This car is a process, not a project, and it all started when I tried to troubleshoot why the left front speaker wasn’t working. I had to remove the dash. Discovered a rats nest of wiring, apparently this thing had a security system installed. I decided to simplify things (so I thought) by cleaning up the wiring and removed erroneus &idle items. I soldered weak connections and tidied things up, and by process, learned every circuit inside the car. Tested continuity, found a short in the main wiring harness – no way for me to find that inside the car. At least it wasn’t my doing! And plugged it all back in and slapped the dash back on. Found four leaks in the process, one being inside the front doors right onto the speakers.
So I start the car.
The RPMs fly up to 3000. And it wants to go higher. Something can’t keep up and it coughs. I shut it off, plug a conductor I undid that is connected to the short (ground fault actually) back in and try the ignition again, this time rpm to 2000 and stays, until I put my foot on the gas and then… Hunting idle! Yaaay!
I have researched up the wazoo, and I realise that the idle is not likely related to electrical, but my throttle cable. But I can’t help thinking how before I took the dash off, the engine ran perfectly: idled at 1000 at startup and relaxed to 750 ish as it got going.
I did drain the coolant the week before the dash. Maybe there was air, so I went to bleed it and discovered my fans are not turning on now! Ugh. So I just finished troubleshooting my whole coolant system. Had to replace the engine temp sensor. Discovered the harness wiring for the temp sponsors and such under the distributer (oh, the engine was swapped by previous owner, is now a D16y7 from 1997 civic) was all hard, like it had been exposed to too much heat, the wires were cracked and touch metal in some spots, so I fixed all that. Finished troubleshooting by discovering the fan relay is also toast. I think. It shows infinity and when power is applied shows infinity. However, there is constant plower being supplied from the harness on ignition 2 power and engine on power. About 6 volts. Is that normal? Is this relay normally closed or open?
I tried adjusting the throttle cable and the idle changed, but I couldn’t figure it out. I can’t get it back down to 1000, or get rid of the hunting.
How the hell did all this happen from me removing a few loads??!?
PS – no vacuum leaks either. And there is a LOT of conduction grease all over the contacts under the hood.
Here is the weird part – not one fuse is blown, and I tested R, not just visual check. UNKLE!
Any ideas, thoughts, moral support welcome and most appreciated!! Or questions… There are more quirks to this car.
The automatic tranny is going. I can’t drive past 60km, terrible rattling noise occurs and engine isn’t happy. Compression is excellent! At least..but still has valve knocks and leaks around engine.
OK, that’s it! PLEASE HELP!
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I think a shop manual with the electrical schematics might be the best investment if your plans are to keep the vehicle.
Due to the age an OEM manual should not be that expensive off of ebay, or even a 3rd party manual might have schematics.
Thanks BigDan! I have been working off of incomplete civic hatchback diagrams. I checked out the cost of buying from Rock Auto (I’m in Canada). And with shipping I can get the factory manual for $80. But your right – do I keep it? I’m stubborn. So I’ll stick with him till he kills me, L.
Mostly, I am wondering if I’m missing something obvious about removing loads and how that may have effected the engine performance after? I suppose proper diagrams will show me how the circuits are related and how the power moves. Maybe I nudged something related to the throttle I am unaware of? I mean to follow the idle troubleshooting FAQ here.
I think I need to find that short. If the fans were working before I removed loads and then had to replace two fried components after, well, maybe I should stop replacing components?
I am totally overwhelmed. I really just want to take it in, but cannot afford it!
I would take the car to a carwash and check for water leaks, especially around the base of the windshield, where water can drip onto the underdash wiring. If leaks are contributing to your electrical issues, you’ll be chasing your tail until you get things sealed up and dried out.
Ta. I plan to, I actually did find one leak dripping almost directly onto the back of the fuse box. I removed the wipers and vent cover and bruised my forearm getting all the built up debris out of the drain spots on the driver side. I tried to reseal things. But I know I need a new windshield. It is leaking on top of the dash from there as well. So once I get this car rolling again I will soak it and check the underdash part out. But methinks in order to be sure I should replace the windshield.
Anybody reading this, thinking about buying an old used car, test drive in the winter!
I feel it would be worth making this work, I hear so many good things about Honda motors from this generation, and so far it has been easy to work under the hood. Nothing too hard to reach.
But there are four water leaks, broken auto transmission, short on main wiring harness or engine harness, hole in the muffler, ripped CV boot, pitted rotors, shot shock absorbers, left turning signal is slow to respond or faulty,cooling fans don’t turn on, idle is hunting and high rpms, now mixture way off. And not to mention I bought used winter tires and there is internal damage I didn’t see! The body is not perfect but its not bad either and no rust underneath except on exhaust pipes. Engine is strong. Suspension is inspected and safe.
If I can get a tranny at wreckers for 50-90 $ (CAD), and a windshield for $250-300, that’s not so bad, right?
At least it’s an easy car to work on. Sort of like an old tractor. I miss working on those things. That said, anytime someone comes here with a Honda idle problem I send them here.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-idle-problems
I’ve answered so many of these questions over the years I’ve condensed the answers into that article. Please read it over and get back to us with what you find.
This padawan is not yet ready to tackle the idle issue.
I have yet to 100% confirm the coolant system is air-free. I very graciously received the wiring diagram for the coolant system. Now I am not sure I tested a rad fan relay at all. Or whether there is supposed to be constant power going to the relay I tested.
The diagram shows the US model having a fan relay, and the CAD model using the coolant temp switch to complete the circuit.This thread… http://www.civic4g.com/index.php/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14955;url=http://www.civic4g.com/index.php/forum/
…aks if anyone can help me figure out what model I have, so I may confirm whether the relay I tested is what it is. Here I will post a pic of the location of relay.
If anyone here has insight, that would be awesomesauce. I am waiting 2 weeks for factory service manual to arrive in mail, but I need car running before then. Hail Mary!
I now know that these relays are normally open. Closing completes their circuit. I think I tested the relay incorrectly. There was no diagram on the relay itself. So I assumed the wrong circuit. I am going to re test, and post pic. Still not sure if it is the fan relay…
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