Honda Element, is it my starter?

[Matthew Pence]

Hi All,

I actually found this site by searching for a different issue on my Element and stumbling across ETCG’s video on Element suspension noises. Have been lurking for a while.

Anyway, I have a 2006 Element EX AT/AWD (162K miles) that is now experiencing some issues starting, which I believe is tied to the starter. Given how expensive this part is, I would like to get some sort of confirmation that this is the likely culprit.

SYMPTOMS: Sluggish start, sometimes the engine fails to turn over. Trying several times will often allow the vehicle to start.

DIAGNOSTICS: I have tested the battery resting voltage (12.5), and the running voltage with full electrical load (13.4). Tested for voltage drop across negative terminal (0.00). Observed dash lights during sluggish or failed start attempts and noticed that the dash lights do not dim or extinguish in a manner consistent with inadequate voltage. In my experience with previous failures, a bad battery or bad connection will cause all of the dash lights to dim significantly when the starter is engaged. I also noted that the vehicle is more prone to experience this problem after it has reached operating temperature.

DIAGNOSIS: I suspect that the brushes in the starter are worn to the end of their service life, or that the commutator is damaged. It’s possible, but unlikely that a field coil may have opened up. In any case, I think the starter is due for a replacement or a complete rebuild. The major thing that leads me to the starter is the lights not dimming, even when the motor won’t turn over.

The starter from Honda is $339 for a remanufactured unit. It requires removal of the intake manifold and throttle body to get to the starter. I don’t want to go through all of that if the starter is NOT the likely culprit.

I plan to proceed tomorrow as I cannot have my Element down for very long. Your guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

-Matt

Topic

[Its me]

It very possibly is the starter. But just for peace of mind, have your battery load tested. I have seen batteries that had the required voltage but were the cause of such issues. When put under load, it reveals the true condition of the battery.

Most all major parts stores will do it for free anyway… So if the battery passes, then you can be pretty sure it is the starter.

Karl

[twiggy]

Your measured alternator voltage of 13.4V looks borderline to me. I believe the spec is min of 13.5V with a load of 75% of max alt output (about 75A).

If your battery isn’t fully charged to run your starter, this could be why.

[Matthew Pence]

Thanks for the response.

I forgot to mention that I ran this test with my trailer connected and illuminated as well. That may have been enough draw to pull down the extra 0.1 volts.

I will take the battery and the starter up for testing just to be sure. I need to pull the intake for cleaning anyway, so it’s not a complete waste of time. With 162K on the original starter, I think it’s done quite well. Especially here in the Florida heat, humidity, and lots of salt air exposure.

I’ll know more tomorrow when I disassemble it. I’ll update you then.

[drthrift035]

Here is the best and most expensive way to verify your problem. Get the machine in the video below.

[pilotvp]

Try removing fuse or relay to fuel pump, and attempt to start the car while voltmeter attached to battery. Make sure voltage doesn’t drop to 9 volts if it does…bad battery. Also, Hook up voltmeter from + terminal of Batt following that cable to the starter, and connect the other lead to that. Start engine and read meter to make sure Voltage Drop not more than .5 volts.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ry68G0C2Fyc

[Matthew Pence]

So, I went ahead and load tested the battery. It tested good, putting out 507 cranking amps. I proceeded to take the vehicle apart and removed the starter. After I got the starter out, I disassembled it for a post-mortem analysis and to be absolutely sure.

-Of the four brushes, only two were extending past the brush retainer.
-The commutator plates were filled with worn brush material.
-The entire housing was full of dust from the worn brushes.

While in there, I went ahead and cleaned the rotary air control and throttle body as best as I could. I found that the rotary control couldn’t actually rotate very well due to excessive carbon buildup. I also cleaned the upper manifold.

The vehicle is now starting beautifully.

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[Bill]

Good job gStitch!

[drthrift035]

Great move to take the starter apart. Glad it worked out.

[Author]

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