- This topic has 15 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 6 months ago by
.
- Topic
I will try to be quick. Doing a head job on a 2003 Honda Civic. The manual specifically states that none of the bolts should pop, and if they do, loosen the bolt and retighten. This is what I did.
1. Tightened all bolts the first round of 14 ft-lbs. No popping.
2. Tightened the bolts the second round of 36 ft-lbs. Some popping, I got concerned but went ahead anyway. Probably half the bolts popped.
3. Tightened the bolts the third round, stopped half way through because they were all popping.
4. Loosened everything. Removed bolts and re-lubed the threads and washers.
5. Tightened up until halfway through the second round. The bolts were popping so I loosened everything again.
6. Then I just said “screw it” and fully torqued the bolts. I used the bolts that didn’t pop as a reference as to how much the wrench should move so I can more accurately gauge how much I have turned the bolts.My question is. Is this okay? I could NOT get them to stop popping. Is it okay that I tightened them up almost fully and then loosened everything up? Any issues here with compression of the gasket?
- Replies
Im thinking you have the wrong order??? what was the order you did them in??
just want to make sure your not doing 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9…. if you do that they will mess up becuase your putting to much stress on one side[quote=”Rob781″ post=171831]Im thinking you have the wrong order??? what was the order you did them in??
just want to make sure your not doing 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9…. if you do that they will mess up becuase your putting to much stress on one side[/quote]I tightened them in the correct order. I have the factory service manual to refer to. I never do a headjob without one.
the other thing you have to look at is..when you squise the head gasket on and loosen the bolts your sqising the head gasket lets call it gel out… basicly your squizing and then lifting it up with out reallily sucking it back in… all the heand gasket is a sheet metak and a gel film subtance on the out side…
so its up to you if you think the new head gasket is bad already…..
another thing that could affect it… did you take out all of the bolts after tighnenting them all down or did you replace one by one basiclly not having anyone time having them all out… basicly if you think about it.. if you take the bolts out and replace the new bolts you might of like moved the head like 1/2mm one way… wich might of craked the gel and make a gap in it… thats something to think about…. I dont know if its a v4 or v6 with 2 heads…you will have to weigh the time spent working on it agian vs the $$ if a new head gasket…. and the odds that the new gasket is now defective… you can just buy the headgaskets by them selves with out the whole kit… its up to you what you want to doWhen you installed the head bolts:
Did you lube both the threads and heads and washers prior?If they “popped” as you say, chances are they are not at the proper torque due to binding.
See if this helps:
Rob781: I thought about that and took the bolts out to re-lube one-by-one, not all out at once.
nightflyr: Yes I lubed them up, both the threads and the washer. It didn’t help.
[quote=”nightflyr” post=171872]Interesting…
Did you clean out the threaded areas of the block where the head bolts mate to?[/quote]Yes I sprayed them out with compressed air until nothing was coming out.
This might sound strange but I noticed the same physical mechanism for “popping” also occurs when turning a sharpie marker in it’s cap (okay bear with me here). If I try to turn the cap slowly, I get popping while turning. However if I turn fast, the popping is less (same for headbolts). As an experiment, I lubed up the sharpie cap with oil to see if the popping would diminish at all. The oil did not help at ALL. Not one iota. Which means the popping isn’t really caused by lubrication issues, but rather the resistance to motion from the two parts of the pen turning in one another as the pen is slightly tapered.
This leads me to believe that the issue here with the head bolts may be the actual bolts themselves. They are new ,cost me 50.00 bucks, but they were made in china and not from Honda. If the bolts were made with sloppy tolerances or with a worn out machine, they could be slightly larger than OEM ones or have a slight taper to them and cause excess resistance while spinning in the threads.
Anyway this is all just me guessing. To test this hypothesis I could go buy new head bolts from Honda and see if there is any difference. I could also take a bolt out and measure the top and bottom of the bolt to check for any taper. I am a hobby machinist and I know that if your machine has wear and you turn something long and skinny, you could machine a taper in it due to the bolt “flexing” when turning or due to the wear in the ways.
I am assuming the gasket will still be fine even though I already torqued these bolts down. But maybe I should get another gasket? I am still undecided on what to do next. I already threw away my old bolts like a dummy. I could have reused them to test this (they are not TTY bolts).
[quote=”Xyius” post=171873]…they were made in china and not from Honda.[/quote]
I’d say that’s the nub of your issue. “Chinese manufacturers produce the best stuff in the world” said no one ever.
You may do as you like..
But I would not trust that head gasket now…
As to the head bolts, I would go with the OEM.
Not a fan of china products in this type of application.I would go over and clean out the threads with a tap set and make sure they are fully cleaned… and blow them out really good and like rerun the tap set in and out a few times to make sure they are fully cleaned out
[quote=”Rob781″ post=171891]I would go over and clean out the threads with a tap set and make sure they are fully cleaned… and blow them out really good and like rerun the tap set in and out a few times to make sure they are fully cleaned out[/quote]
I believe a thread chase would be preferable to a tap.Okay I now have a definitive answer. I put the timing belt on and then did a leak down test. Cylinder numbers 1 and 4 (the two end cylinders) had AWESOME leakage numbers. Less than 10%. However cylinders number 2 and 3 (the two center ones) were leaking into each other. I could feel the air coming out of the opposite sparkplug hole when I did the leak down test.
So now I am going to pull the head again (luckily it isn’t much work), buy new bolts and gasket FROM HONDA, and try again.
Not sure if you mentioned it or not.
Have you had the head checked for warping and or damage by a machine shop?
Has the block been check?[quote=”nightflyr” post=171941]Not sure if you mentioned it or not.
Have you had the head checked for warping and or damage by a machine shop?
Has the block been check?[/quote]Yes I did. No warpage or cracks and it was machined.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.