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I drive a 2005 CR-V EX Automatic Transmission, AWD, bought in the USA, 105,000 miles, and this is our only car. Other than this problem, the car is mechanically in good shape and has been well maintained. But it does have significant body damage ($4,300) from when a guy hit me a few months ago, as well as quite a few dings like caused by a car door in a parking lot.
This is EMBARRASSING, I really screwed up.
After installing new CV boots on the driver’s side, I had a real difficult time getting the ball joint stud into the LCA because the strut assembly had dropped down so far, and no amount of prying on the LCA would get it low enough to clear the BJ stud. I finally resolved it by jacking up the steering knuckle/strut assembly to get the ball joint stud to clear the LCA.
I went for a slow test drive and got about a hundred feet out of my driveway when I started hearing some noises from that area and the first shift was a little “clunky.” I immediately stopped and got out, and saw a trail of transmission fluid leading from my driveway. I slowly backed up back into my garage, jacked it up, and saw that the inner CV joint wasn’t all the way in. Apparently with all the manipulation, I pulled the axle out of the transmission about an inch, or I didn’t have it seated properly to begin with. I neglected to check it after getting the ball joint reconnected to the LCA. I pulled the axle again, and saw that all the teeth of the splines at the end of the axle (between the end and the circlip, about 1/8″) were chewed up. The splines beyond the circlip were intact. I was able to recover a few metal chips by reaching into the transmission and pulling them out with my fingers. After kicking myself in the ass several times, I pondered what to do.
I haven’t been able to find any information online about this problem, searches for metal in transmission just come up with the standard some metal particles are normal wear, etc. where my problem is quick and self-inflicted. My initial thoughts were to either do a thorough change out of the transmission fluid using the drain, fill, warm it up, and then repeat a few times to dry to rinse out as much of the metal as possible; or to have it towed somewhere for a complete flush. Since the weekend was upon us, I borrowed a car and went to the Honda dealer for some ATF to do a few drains and fills myself to start.
The metal chips will vary in size from perhaps a whole section of end spline to microscopic. The few pieces I could recover with my fingers were about .08″ x .125″ or a little smaller. On doing my first drain, I checked the drain plug and found it was magnetized, but it didn’t have much on it. I also dragged a magnet through the basin that contained the old fluid and didn’t come up with much. I then poured the fluid into a milk jug using a filter inside the funnel. I had a few small pieces in the filter, but again not much. The total amount of metal I have recovered is much less than the amount that would have been stripped off the 1/8″ at the end of the axle.
I don’t have much more than general knowledge about what’s inside my transmission, but I’ll be doing some more research. I’ve seen a few cutaway models over the years of US cars, but I understand Honda uses a different design than US car makers. My CR-V has both an internal and an external filter in the transmission cooler line.
I’ve had no transmission problems up to this point.
My concerns and questions are:
1. There is a lot of commentary that transmission flushes are unnecessary and can even be damaging on Hondas. I recently learned that Honda recommends against transmission flushes. I had the transmission flushed at 62,000 and 91,000 with no ill effects at a local shop that I trust, and stressed to them that Honda ATF needed to be used, and suffered no ill effects. But, would a flush (do they backflush opposite to the normal flow of fluid to clean the filters?) even get those metal particle out safely?
2. Since I didn’t get much metal out on my first drain, how likely am I to get much more on the second and third drains?
3. Where are those chips going to end up if I do several drains and refills? Will they safely make it to the internal and external filters and be trapped, or will they first get moved around to gear teeth where they can cause some damage, or will they get lodged in and obstruct some small internal channel that is necessary for proper lubrication and cooling? I’ve also read that some transmissions have magnetic solenoids that could attract the metal chips and be compromised.
4. Should I take it somewhere for disassembly and cleaning out the chips before driving it anywhere?
5. The end splines between the circlip and the end of the axle are worn down at least halfway, maybe more. Will there be enough metal there to retain the circlip in the transmission?Am I just totally hosed with regard to salvaging this transmission without a huge expense? The situation is complicated by the fact that it’s a 12 year old car and some guy hit me on a parking lot a few months ago, causing $4,300 in body damage. I got the insurance check, but haven’t had the repair done yet. I”m not sure how much money I should sink into this car, even though it’s been a great vehicle and could probably go for another 100,000 miles.
Other than just doing several drains and refills or a flush, and then praying, I don’t see a lot of options. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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It is never a good thing to have metal fragments floating around.
There are places they could settle that may not cause issue, but there are many other places where they can cause damage.
Valve body, pump, band section etc.
Unless your fully versed in transmission repair, this sounds like a job for the professionals.
My first thought would be to have it dismantled, cleaned and rebuilt.
As to is it worth repairing? only you can determine that.My concerns and questions are:
1. There is a lot of commentary that transmission flushes are unnecessary and can even be damaging on Hondas. I recently learned that Honda recommends against transmission flushes. I had the transmission flushed at 62,000 and 91,000 with no ill effects at a local shop that I trust, and stressed to them that Honda ATF needed to be used, and suffered no ill effects. But, would a flush (do they backflush opposite to the normal flow of fluid to clean the filters?) even get those metal particle out safely?
That would depend on the passageways and directional flow of the fluid.
2. Since I didn’t get much metal out on my first drain, how likely am I to get much more on the second and third drains?
A more important question you should be asking yourself is ” Am I sending fragments into areas that could cause more damage.
3. Where are those chips going to end up if I do several drains and refills? Will they safely make it to the internal and external filters and be trapped, or will they first get moved around to gear teeth where they can cause some damage, or will they get lodged in and obstruct some small internal channel that is necessary for proper lubrication and cooling? I’ve also read that some transmissions have magnetic solenoids that could attract the metal chips and be compromised.
See above.
4. Should I take it somewhere for disassembly and cleaning out the chips before driving it anywhere?
Again see above.
5. The end splines between the circlip and the end of the axle are worn down at least halfway, maybe more. Will there be enough metal there to retain the circlip in the transmission?
Best to have a professional determine that issue.
There may also be damaged spline teeth in the mating shaft in the transmission.nightflyr,
Thanks very much. You confirmed my fears. I think I need to get it towed to a reputable transmission shop (hopefully I can find one) Any thoughts on the Honda dealer vs an independent shop? I would try to find a shop that specializes in Hondas.
The smartest thing you can do is RESEARCH
Get price quotes, warranty information etc….
Also find out perspective shops business practices through the BBB and local customer satisfaction.
Keep in mind, no matter either a Honda dealership or independent shop.
It comes down to the knowledge and skill of the person doing the work.
My thought is, that a dealership will be the most costly, but if their reputation is good it may be worth the cost.
It all depends on what is available in your area.Thanks, nightflyr. I’m still researching . . .
I thought I would pass along what I was told by a service adviser at my local Honda dealer and by a guy at a transmission shop recommended by that same service advisor. The service advisor said that they haven’t put in a replacement transmission in several years as Honda’s price is so high ($5,000), so they send customers to an outside shop for a remanufactured transmission. He suggested that I do another fluid change and try driving it, that the metal chips may not cause a big problem.
The guy at the transmission shop that the Honda dealer recommended essentially said the same thing – to go ahead and drive it after the fluid change and see what happens, along with replacing the external filter.
I was surprised to hear this from both of these guys as they would have a vested interest in telling me to bring my car into the shop ASAP. I’m still somewhat skeptical of this approach, but I am considering it. The main reason that I would consider it is if I determine that the cost of having someone disassemble, clean, examine and diagnose would cost near what a full repair or a remanufactured transmission would cost. If that is the case, I wouldn’t have too much to lose. Does that make sense?
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