Hard Start After Long Periods of Off-Time.

[Aaron Anderson]

I have a 2006 Kia Optima EX V6.
Lately, my vehicle has been giving me a hard, or slow, start in the mornings. (after being off for like 12 hours)
It turns over faithfully ever time (so far), but this problem continually occurs. It doesn’t occur if the vehicle has only been off for around 9 hours because it turns over right away when I get out of work.

I went ahead and replaced my spark plugs to see if it would help. (they needed to be replaced anyway)
Problem appeared to stop for a day or two and then came back.
I’ve had the battery, charger, starter, and alternator tested with positive results.
I left the vehicle overnight at a local mechanic to test the fuel pump pressure (perhaps it wasn’t off long enough) with positive results.
Just to be on the safe side, I replaced my gas cap with a brand new one.

Please note that I was not raised around working on cars and have very limited knowledge regarding them…
However, it appears to me to be a loss of fuel pressure. (turning the key to the “on” position a few times helps the problem, but doesn’t make it go away)
I don’t want to just replace things based on shooting in the dark, because I’d rather not burn through my money.
On the same note, I’d rather not get bent over by a mechanic that may change me a bunch of money to find inconclusive results.

To give you an explanation of my engine knowledge:
I understand the combustion cycle, from engineering school, but absolutely do not know my way around an actual engine. (thank you, modern education system for not teaching me useful life skills)

I greatly appreciate any insight and would be happy to clarify any details to the best of my ability.

(I’ve thought about replacing the fuel pump or the fuel pump relay, but I don’t want to make hasty decisions)

Thanks in advance!

Topic

[James]

Could be a slight parasitic draw somewhere. see this video for that test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0. Basically over the 12 hours you battery could drain a bit due to a parasitic draw and be less than optimal in the morning, then works well after you drive (and charge it with the alternator). How old is the battery? The battery might not be holding a charge well if there is no parasitic draw ( good way to test this is to check the voltage at the battery with a voltmeter when you get home at night, then again in the morning. I would do this after you determine if there is no parasitic draw because if there is then your battery voltage would be lower not due to it being unable to hold a charge)

Since you did the plugs, I would recommend the wires too. Also since you mentioned fuel pressure, do you have a fuel filter that can be changed? (usually under one of the side frame rails). Might help. I had the same problem in my old jeep and for me it was a parasitic draw due to bad aftermarket wiring. What mileage?

[James]

Also, scotty kilmer has a good video on checking the fuel pump. PITA to replace usually so definitely dont jump to that if it isn’t necessary

[Aaron Anderson]

I’ll check out those videos after I get off of work. Thanks.

The battery is from 12/14, so about a year and a half old.
The vehicle has just under 90,000 miles on it.
As far as the filter goes, I’ll have to see where mine is. Apparently the ’06 and ’07 have different locations for the Optima. Mine is a late ’06 that has some ’06 parts and some ’07 parts. It has been a PITA for part knowledge.

Thanks for the suggestions. I really don’t want to replace the pump. I can only find a relay replacement on eBay and still need to try to test mine to be certain that it is working. Assuming that I can locate a diagram for it.

[Aaron Anderson]

Also, what was your fix for the parasitic draw?
Obviously I’m not sure if that is the problem, but it may prove to be useful knowledge.

[James]

You detach the negative battery cable., then attach one lead of a multimeter set to amps to the negative post of the battery and the other to the cable terminal with the car doors, glovebox, trunk, etc all closed. You should see a draw of about 50ma (0.05 amps) normally. If you see more (say, 0.5 amps) then you know you have a draw somewhere. with the leads still connected, pull out and replace one fuse at a time in the fuse box under the hood. If you remove a fuse and the amps drop to an acceptable level, then you have found the affected circuit (should be a diagram in the fuse box, in your owners manual, or online to tell you what fuse does what). From there, obtain a wiring diagram for that circuit and check all of the components on that circuit (could be a light switch left on like it was in the video, all of the above steps are from the video).

If you do have a draw and find the circuit affected, but nothing simple like a switch left on is causing the problem, then you would probably have a short somewhere or a stuck relay on the circuit It is a PITA if it is not a simple problem like a switch. Start with the simple and easily accessible components of the circuit like switches and relays before you dig into the wiring to look for damaged wires.

If you pass the draw test, then I would recommend changing the fuel filter if possible, check the fuel lines for leaks and damage, and if that doesn’t solve it then you may have bigger problems in the fuel system. One thing to check is the fuel pressure first thing in the morning. A buddy of mine had a similar issue and found it was the check valve being stuck open, allowing fuel to drain into the tank. Check the pressure by turning to the on position (dont start it), and then see if the pressure goes up after a few more turns to the on position. Good luck, hopefully it is a simple fix.

One more thing: if you don’t have a parasitic draw, I would check first to see how well the battery holds a charge. Test the voltage as soon as you turn the car off, and leave it sitting overnight and check the voltage in the morning. Do the same test again at a time when you can leave it sitting for 24 hours to see if there is more of a voltage drop. if there is, likely your battery cant hold a charge (assuming you pass the parasitic draw test). Let me know the results, and keep it simple before you look for complex fixes.

Does turning the key a few times in the morning make it start like it normally should? Or is it still a hard start?

[Aaron Anderson]

For the parasitic draw test, does it matter if the car has recently been on?
Or should I do that test after letting the vehicle sit for awhile?

[James]

Doesnt matter if it was recently on, just make sure everything is off, cigarette plug accessories are unplugged, and all doors are closed securely. See the video before you do it for a full explanation of the process.

[Aaron Anderson]

Apologies, didn’t catch the last question.

After turning the key into the “on” position a few times, I still get a hard start.

[James]

Okay, I would try the electrical tests first to rule out a parasitic draw or a battery that can’t hold a charge first

[Aaron Anderson]

I’ll try to get that stuff done ASAP.

Thanks for the insight!

[James]

Let me know how it all goes. Do you have a haynes or chilton (or better yet factory service manual) for your car? They are very helpful.

[Aaron Anderson]

Will do. Unfortunately, I don’t have a service manual for the vehicle.

[Richard Kirshy]

To do a proper draw test:
The car needs to be “asleep” meaning after the ignition is switched off and you exit and lock the vehicle,.
The computer module(s) take time to reach a low state of operation.
This can take between 5 minutes to an hour or more depending on the vehicle.

Opening the door may well activate a portion of the power system which can give a false amp draw reading.

I suggest you hook up your amp meter as stated, but have it located on the bumper and close the hood.
Then watch the readings.
Do not be worried if you see a higher reading at first.
Suggest you check it every 15 minutes and see if there is a drop off.
One other item to make note:
Be sure you have a fully charges battery.

On a side note:
2 major parasitic draws are usually after market radio’s / amplifiers and alarm systems.
If you confirm a parasitic draw check these two items first.

[Frank Heiser]

Just to clarify, are you saying the engine turns over (rotates) slowly compared to normal or are you just saying it takes a longer time to start? Sounds like you mean you just have to crank it for longer which to me would mean the battery, parasitic draw, etc. are not going to be your problem.

I have a ’03 Kia Rio and I’ve had issues for years with it occasionally taking a long time to start. Seems to be fuel related like you mentioned. I had several people tell me they thought the drain-back valve in the fuel pump was intermittent. So the fuel might be partially draining backwards into the tank away from the engine when it sits for a while. Although I found with my car that length of time sitting made no difference, it was 50/50 whether it will start fast or have to crank a couple times.

[James]

[quote=”Nodak81″ post=168976]Just to clarify, are you saying the engine turns over (rotates) slowly compared to normal or are you just saying it takes a longer time to start? Sounds like you mean you just have to crank it for longer which to me would mean the battery, parasitic draw, etc. are not going to be your problem.

I have a ’03 Kia Rio and I’ve had issues for years with it occasionally taking a long time to start. Seems to be fuel related like you mentioned. I had several people tell me they thought the drain-back valve in the fuel pump was intermittent. So the fuel might be partially draining backwards into the tank away from the engine when it sits for a while. Although I found with my car that length of time sitting made no difference, it was 50/50 whether it will start fast or have to crank a couple times.[/quote]

that was the issue in my friends jeep. Not sure what the auto parts stores have around you OP, but you could rent a fuel pressure gauge kit to see the pressure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YLRtA_QHa8

[Author]

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