Good Deal or room to haggle?

[Ed]

I’ve found a 1997 Ford Taurus SHO (V8) close to where I live for $4500 with 89,000 miles on it, the pics show a very clean car both inside and out. No engine pics. I checked the True Market Value of it and it said the retail was $3600. I don’t have a problem paying the 4500 but I thought I would offer 3800. If the dealer paid $3600 for it he is making $900 or 20% mark up.
My question is: How much of that $900 do I have to work with, in other words I don’t want to get laughed at. Would the 3800 be a good place to start? If he lets me take it to a mechanic and I ask for a CarFax, everything turns out good what should I my upper end be? If he doesn’t as well?

Additional info: Cams WILL have to be welded if there is no proof it was done already ($900)
Back windows are tinted. Looks like new tires.

Topic

[W00DBar0n]

Seems high in my books.
Seen 2001 Taurus’s going for 5,000$, but i am a deal finder. I just bought a 2010 Toyota Tundra for 16,000 with 39,000km and in awesome working order(test drove the hell out of it for 250KM) and the sellers lost $900+(read the paper work on their lease)

But how i look at it, figure out what the MAX you are willing to spend and low ball from there.

[Ed]

I figure the dealer will want to get rid of it pretty soon it was listed on 1 site for over 100 days now, so he’s had it at least 3 months. I really like the color and it looks good from the outside and inside pics.
You can see for yourself:http://www.boatshopper.com/used-cars/1999_Ford_Taurus_SHO_Cookstown_NJ-15841573.htm

Of course I’ll have to watch Eric’s video on used cars like 3 more times before I go check it out.

[mckrishes]

If retail was $3600, then the dealer paid way less for it. It seems like dealers always ask way above retail, then they lower the price to make you think you are getting a good deal. I would inspect the car thoroughly and then offer the lowest you would be willing to pay and not exceed your max. If you can’t come to an agreement, be prepared to walk away. At this point, you will be surprised at their offer. Don’t get too attached though.

[Bobby]

I really hate it when dealers post 900 pictures and views of the car and not one of them are of the engine. It makes me wonder why they didn’t take the extra five seconds to pop the hood and take an engine pic. I’d chew them down $500 just for that lol.

Remember you got to pay tax, and title and other fees to. That price is not out the door, so keep that in mind to. Average prices in New Jersey below.

Sales or use tax: 7.0%
Title: 28.25
Registration:$97
Plate transfer: $6
Additional fees: Documentary fee $283 (not required by law)
Total: Up to $790

No cap or rules

The main fee is a documentation fee. New Jersey has no limit on documentation fees, while New York’s is $75, according to Edmunds. Average registration fees are also slightly higher in New Jersey — $97, compared with $80 in New York.

New Jersey dealers sometimes charge a slightly lower sticker price, then recoup the money by charging fees as high as $790. It’s no different than marking something up 20 percent so you can then say you marked it down 20 percent.

[Ed]

I went to look at it today, checked it out and took it for a test drive. I will be going back Saturday, (2 days) and bringing a mechanic that my father in-law works with, and I trust. Some things that concerned me:

1. he brought a jump pack as soon as we left the office, i told him “that’s not a good sign” and he said he had over 200 cars, and that he couldn’t start all of them on a regular basis to keep them charged, (bull) he probably knew it wouldn’t start, because he didn’t even try before he put on the jump pack. When he hooked it up it started on the 1st try but didn’t exactly sound healthy when he started it. Like a lack of power, or a delay in fuel. 3 secs later sounded great.

2. I know the car has been sitting for at least 4 months, the car was parked in the grass and had sunk down into it, and had flat spots on the tires that were low, not flat.

3. When I told him the mechanic was coming Saturday with a scan tool, he told me the owner didn’t allow it anymore, someone brought one once and screwed up something with another car.
4. Road test, low coolant light came on, GREAT performance though, didn’t over heat had it running while we talked for about 10 mins. Some shimmering when going down the road at 25-45. Could be the flat spots on the tires, although they looked brand new, with good tread, the car sat for at least 4 months.
5. After test drive he had me turn it off and try it again, it cranked but didn’t turn over, and the wipers came on everytime I tried it…weird, I did some research online and found there may be a battery saver relay that drains the battery after 8 hrs, and causes some other weird side effects.
6. Had no maintance records, didn’t know if the cams were welded, told me he knew nothing about the car, other than it was a trade in, at another dealer.

Things I liked about the car:
1. Looks amazing, inside and out. The engine was emaculate, not a spot of dirt on it, hoses look brand new, sounded perfect, no pings, or knocks, perfect performance, no hesiation in the engine or transmission, rotors were rusty from sitting but not scored, and plenty of pad left, nice tight high pedal.
2. Car has 89k miles, great for a 99 but right on the cusp on major intervals.
3. all the seams look good and uniform, moonroof no dimples.
4. no suspention noise, no clicking, gringing, or rubbing.

I’m holding off on making an offer or talking about it, untill the mechanic looks at it. It kinda scares me that it wouldn’t start after running for 15-20 mins, and the owner of the lot wouldn’t let me use a scan tool. I will also ask for a car fax on Saturday.

[Ed]

oh also I forgot to mention, they took the inspection sticker off of it and said i’d have to get it inspected, i’m confident it would pass. But maybe emissions would be something it would fail for.

[Bobby]

When I told him the mechanic was coming Saturday with a scan tool, he told me the owner didn’t allow it anymore, someone brought one once and screwed up something with another car.

That would turn me off big time. Sounds like an excuse to me. If they let you test drive the vehicle by yourself, I would drive for a bit, and find a parking lot, and scan it real quick. Basic OBDII scanners will not alter data, it just receives, and the chance of finding a code with those is slim without an engine light.

Big thing to check for when a car is sitting a long time is gaskets. If the car doesn’t start when turning it back on, it could be a dead cell in the battery which will give you a little power, or could be a bad alternator not charging the battery correctly.

Use a multimeter and test the battery . Should be 13ish-14 if the alternator is charging correctly. In order to get a precise reading on your multimeter, restart it and set it to 50 volt scale. After 15 seconds note the reading on the multimeter gauge.

If you have a 12 volt battery, the reading should be at least 9.6 on the multimeter for the battery to take charge. If it’s less than 9.6, then it’s time to opt for a new battery.

For your alternator you need Turn your multimeter to the 20 V setting. Start the engine. At this point, check to make sure the alternator pulley / belt is spinning properly without slipping. If the alternator is working well, your multi-meter should read somewhere in the vicinity of 14 volts (typically 13.8-14.2). If it is reading excessively higher than 14 volts (greater than 15 volts) it is possible that the voltage regulator on your alternator is faulty or going bad.

If it is reading lower than 13-14 volts, there are a number of possibilities as to the reason. First, it is possible that your engine idle speed is too low for the alternator to put out sufficient voltage/power. Try revving up the engine to 2000 RPM or higher and take a reading.

If the voltage is still too low, check to be sure all the connectors on your alternator are tight and that the alternator belt is not slipping and is spinning on the pulley correctly. If it is still not putting out sufficient power, then the alternator’s voltage regulator could be bad or the alternator itself may need replaced.

Hope everything works out for you.

[Ed]

he wouldn’t let me take it for a test drive by myself, i thought of that too. How easy is it to check relays? He said something about putting in a new battery in the cars when people buy them, with leads me to believe that he knows the battery will be dead in 8 hrs, which is a symptom of that bad relay.

I’m thinking that relay is draining the battery, a jump pack gets it to start, the alternator has to charge an almost completely dead battery, and when I turned it off the alternator didn’t have enough time to charge the battery enough to start. I’ve read that if a certain relay doesn’t have enough power it won’t start. Also they have a tsb for the 99 Taurus, concerning the wipers. 00-9-6
Also found this: http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/99tsb.html

[drthrift035]

Here are some things to do before you even decide to go into negotiations with the seller.

1) Check the book value.( People need to make a profit. However if the book value says $2000 and it’s being sold for $10,000 there is an issue.

2) Check out these videos just as a reference for yourself and make notes. (BRING A NOTEPAD AND PAPER) DOCUMENT PROBLEMS YOU NOTICE.

3) Take it to a reputable mechanic.

A) He must hook it up to a computer and check for any possible trouble codes.

B) Check all of the mechanical components.

C) Run an Engine Compression Test.( A weak/ worn engine will cause you trouble)

4) All of these systems must be checked.

ENGINE, STEERING & SUSPENSION, BRAKES, TIRES, ELECTRICAL, TRANSMISSION, DRIVE AXLES ETC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7y4yjjjumU

In conclusion, you work hard for your money. Protect yourself by getting as many things looked over as possible.

[Bobby]

[quote=”EdHall23″ post=50934]he wouldn’t let me take it for a test drive by myself, i thought of that too. How easy is it to check relays? He said something about putting in a new battery in the cars when people buy them, with leads me to believe that he knows the battery will be dead in 8 hrs, which is a symptom of that bad relay.

I’m thinking that relay is draining the battery, a jump pack gets it to start, the alternator has to charge an almost completely dead battery, and when I turned it off the alternator didn’t have enough time to charge the battery enough to start. I’ve read that if a certain relay doesn’t have enough power it won’t start. Also they have a tsb for the 99 Taurus, concerning the wipers. 00-9-6
Also found this: http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/99tsb.html%5B/quote%5D

Check your PM. I will send you a message with a video for a quick, and easy to check the relay. If you need more info other then what’s in the video, just let me know.

[Ed]

Thanks turns out it had a bad head gasket, milky white in the oil was the proof, it wasn’t terrible but for what he wanted for the car and the cost of the repair it just wasn’t worth it. So I went to another dealer and got a 02 Ford Explorer for less, that has issues but nothing major right now.

[Steve]

I know this post is old but for others seeking advice on buying a used car: Based on what you described, RUN! Don’t buy it or you’ll regret it. First and foremost if a seller says you can’t or are not allowed to have a mechanic look at it and/or hook it up to a diagnostic tool, red flags are waving all over that car. Move on to another one, preferably to another dealer.

[Author]

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