Front Wheel Studs Keep Breaking

[Eric]

I’m not sure whether this is caused by the age of the studs or how the lug nuts are put back on whenever a mechanic/technician take the wheel(s) off, since they’re the only ones that have an impact wrench.

So far, I’ve had 5 or 6 studs break off whenever I’m taking the lug nuts off; 2 or 3 on the driver side and 3 on the passenger side. The third stud on the passenger side snapped recently and I decided I should try lubricating the studs, which made putting the lug nuts on a lot smoother; I thought that would work, but when I got tires the week after, the technician started having trouble when he tried putting the last lug nut on the front driver’s side wheel and we both figured that stud was failing.

Although this has been a small bit of a headache, I’m glad replacing the studs are easy, since there’s a space behind the brake rotor that you can access when you take the caliper assembly off to replace the studs.

Topic

[Mike]

There is definitely something abnormal going on, and it seems like a lot of effort is going into making sure it’s not human error. Is it possible for you to post up a few pics? Things like the studs, removed lug nuts, the front and back of the rim’s hub/lug area. My thought is that there is may be an issue with non-factory wheels not having centering rings, factory wheels that have been damaged from coming loose, lug nuts that are not the correct type for the rim, studs that are crooked or perhaps aftermarket ones that are not as strong as they should be (not that I’ve ever had a problem with aftermarket wheels studs being weak, but you never know).

I always lube lugs with penetrating oil and cinch them down a bit tighter than spec, but I’ve never had a problem doing that over the last 10 years of working as a tech. Spinning on lug nuts that sound like a bird call is not acceptable to me, although other guys have no problem installing crusty dry squeaky lugs. The vast majority of broken studs are due to technician error. Either the lugs were not tightened properly and came loose letting the wheel bounce around on the hub a beat the hell out of everything, or the tech forces a lug nut on that does not spin the threads freely. There are other reasons, but those are by far the most common.

[Eric]

Well, the wheels are standard 15″ Honda Accord alloy rims that I’ve gotten from Pull-A-Part (salvage yard), since the car originally had 14″ steel wheels, which used tire shops in my area don’t always have them for that size.

I just came back from replacing the passenger side stud and I took some pictures of the area, but I didn’t remember to take pictures of the lug nuts.

After reviewing the photos, they aren’t as great as I expected them to be, but I hope they’re good enough.

[URL=http://s229.photobucket.com/user/eharper8789/media/1990%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_5782.jpg.html][IMG]http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee265/eharper8789/1990%20Honda%20Accord/th_IMG_5782.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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I used EP grease to lubricate the studs.

[James O’Hara]

I have to agree with Fopeano on the lubing them lightly. I use anti seize have to remember to go slightly tighter then spec though because of the lubing agent. As for using grease i am not sure if that is a great alternative I would think it would make it so you have to tighten it much harder which could cause an issue.

As for those studs a lot of mechanics use impacts and do not actually torque wheels. To me that is what it looks like as the threads look slightly mashed over. Before I get chastised for that most if not all the guys on these forums torque them or go by feel. Another possibility is someone is using standard sockets and its causing side load on the studs. Also it looks like someone is not tightening in stages and is not doing a criss cross pattern when tightening which can cause the same thing. i normally run up by hand criss crossing. Then use a socket by hand criss crossing and then torque to spec When I did it at pepboys I used a speed wrench to get it on and started 2-3 threads, then the torque stick 1 step down from actual torque, then torqued with a torque wrench. Got yelled at a lot for that though never had an issue with wheels falling off that some other techs did.

As for the wheels if they were an option for that vehicle and there was no change rotor size or hub size then there is little chance that is causing it unless they are severally out of whack but,something tells me you would have noticed this. Something that goes along with this is bad suspension parts or really out of balance tires. As both can put extra force on the studs.

Another suggestion for you is a little white lithium spray on the aluminum wheel where it contacts the rotor. Its a 20 sec step that makes removing the wheels a lot easier after they have been on a while. If not it can form galvanic corrosion and requires a swift kick and sometimes even a hammer. On Big Rigs I have to use a sledge while someone rotates the tire around if it is real bad it will take 3 passes though that is very rare.

[James O’Hara]

[quote=”Immortal_Dorito” post=136491]It’s very informative.

I do have a couple questions and the first one is what factors in negative camber wear?

I’m not going to flood this post with a wall of text, so I’ll keep it short: I do a lot of stop-and-go driving (600 miles per week), every day in my ’90 Honda Accord, and my front tires have camber wear so bad, it’s on the edge of the tire; used tires only last 2-3 weeks, while new tires last 5-6 weeks, unless I rotate the tires and have them flipped around so that the worn side is on the outside, where they will last for about 3 months.

My tie rods (both sides) are in need of replacing soon and I’m wondering if having a new pair would improve tire wear significantly?

My second question is about one of my struts; there’s this yellow “dust” on them. Is this a cause for concern?

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I now think that your problem could be from bad alignment due to worn suspension parts and you also are going to want to have someone check the rims and the balance of those rims without a tire as well. You are loading your wheel stud in a way they are not designed due to the poor alignment done so over a period of time will break your wheel studs.

[Eric]

[quote=”MDK22″ post=136539]
I now think that your problem could be from bad alignment due to worn suspension parts and you also are going to want to have someone check the rims and the balance of those rims without a tire as well. You are loading your wheel stud in a way they are not designed due to the poor alignment done so over a period of time will break your wheel studs.[/quote]

I appreciate your advice.

I’m currently at an all-time low on my paycheck and it’s getting hard to maintain this vehicle. I get paid by the amount of newspapers I deliver and I’ve had the fewest amounts that I’ve had compared to what I had a year ago; as a matter of fact, I should have had an increase in newspapers last month.

I’ve already spent too much in repairing this car, but I do so in order to keep working (not to mention I love this car); I’ve gotten so sick of how little I’m being paid that I’m getting a second job.

[James O’Hara]

Considering the vehicle I would be willing to bet you could get parts from a you pull it junkyard. Would cut costs significantly. I am all for learning and doing it yourself maybe on weekends when you are not delivering papers or during the day after you deliver the papers. You pull it places are normally cheap.

Though if there is a whole lot wrong with the vehicle a newer used one something like a volvo would be a good idea.

[Eric]

[quote=”MDK22″ post=136560]Considering the vehicle I would be willing to bet you could get parts from a you pull it junkyard. Would cut costs significantly. I am all for learning and doing it yourself maybe on weekends when you are not delivering papers or during the day after you deliver the papers. You pull it places are normally cheap.

Though if there is a whole lot wrong with the vehicle a newer used one something like a volvo would be a good idea.[/quote]

I actually go to Pull-A-Part from time to time, but I only go there for wheels, body parts, or interior parts, since I’m not sure how much life engine and suspension parts have on those cars.

I was actually considering on posting a thread about which car I should get as my second mode of transportation and, ultimately, my replacement car.
My ideas are a 5th gen Accord or perhaps a 1st gen Acura TL if there aren’t any known major issues with them and they do not have those captive rotors (I know the CL doesn’t). I might consider a 4-cylinder 6th gen Accord, as well; I know the V6 trim has tranny issues, but I haven’t heard much about the 4-cylinder one.

[Greg L]

Being that the wheels are Honda wheels, I doubt there is an issue with the bolt spacing. I have seen aftermarket wheels, where there were two spacing options very close, and you could manage to get the wheel on, however it bent the studs when you torqued them, and they snapped. In reality, torque values are for dry studs and nuts, that is no lube. Asian vehicles have notoriously weak studs, especially Isuzu. Hondas of that vintage normally have wheel torque specs about 80 ft-lbs. I find guys hammering the lugnuts with no torque limiting device or torqueing by hand tend to have more problems with distorted threads and broken studs. If the shop refuses to torque the lug nuts by hand, then find a new facility. If you’re tightening them, then unless you’re using a torque wrench, you’re likely going way too tight. Using lube on the threads, means you must put more torque on the nuts to secure them, but then it puts more tension on the threads of the wheel studs, and actually enhances stretching. This is one reason there is actually a push against using anti-seize on spark plugs in aluminum heads.

[Mike]

You say you replaced the stock steel rims with stock alloy rims. Are you using the right lug nuts for the alloy rims? Quite often, the seating taper is different between nuts meant for steelies or alloys. The wrong taper won’t allow the nuts to center the rim holes with respect to the studs, and will not result in secure rim mounting, which could lead to stud failure.

Since the alloy rims are salvage yard picks, it’s possible the previous owner damaged them through poor maintenance and incorrect practices. Hopefully, the rim stud holes aren’t egg-shaped/elongated, which could cause the issues you’re experiencing.

And I’m sure this is just a trick of the eye, but in your photos your studs don’t seem to be parallel to each other and square to the rim seating surface. It looks like they spread outwards. Like I said, it’s probably just an optical illusion.

[Author]

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