Front end head scratcher

[Richard Kirshy]

Situation: I believe it to be rotation noise.
With the wheels turned to the extreme left and moving forward, you can hear a scraping sound coming from the front end.
Come off the extreme and the sound goes away
Diagnosing it..
1 Raised the front end, pivoted the wheels both right and left rotated the tires no sound.
2 Suspected it may need the suspension under load so place jacks under the lower control arms.
3 Repeated the same step one no noise
Back story:
New inner and outer tie rod ends installed 3 months back.
Front end aligned at that time.
No noise then.
I’ve check for bad bearings, no noise or any play.
Rechecked the tie rods, both sides secure and greased.
Steering stops are greased.
Front CV axles do not rotate while in 2WD so that eliminates those.
Dust shields are not in contact with the rotors.
Drag link and idler secure and no slop.
Power steering is working as it always has and fluid is full.
This only began about 2 weeks ago.

Open to any idea’s

Topic

[Todd Smith]

Does speed or braking have any effect?

[Richard Kirshy]

Picture this..
Your parked at the curb.
You cut your wheel to do a 3 point turn.
Pulling away from the curb you hear it.
As to speed.. 2 maybe 3 MPH, I mean how fast does anyone do a 3 point turn on a residential street.
Concerning braking.. at that low of speed, you tap the brakes your at a full stop.

[Todd Smith]

Normally, I’d use a chassis ear to find something like that. They are a little pricy at a hundred bucks but they are a powerful tool if you’re doing this to make money.

On the cheaper end of things, I’d recommend repacking a bearings and hub locks if they’re anywhere near their maintenance interval. At least you’ll have ruled them out and won’t be out anymore than some grease and a couple cotter pins.

[Richard Kirshy]

I had repacked the bearings and auto locker when I replace the tie rod ends so I’m fairly certain those are good.
FWIW, there are no cotter pins… a screw on retainer ring and locking screws are used.
One item to note:
The vehicle only gets driven 2,000 – 2,500 miles per year with that I tend to over maintenance the truck to make up for not driving it .

Though you did give me an idea.
I can try to mount a GoPro to the front end under carriage and see if that shows anything.

[Todd Smith]

That is a good idea. You have to post the video if that works.

[Richard Kirshy]

Unfortunately it did not yield any usable results.
There is a wicked echo under the truck which makes pinpointing the area really tough.
So as of right now all four wheels are lifted off the ground.
Checked the drive shaft and U joints and found no issues.
I even had it running with 4WD engaged no noise with the wheels straight or turned.
So now it would appear it is happening when the drive train is under load.
Tomorrow I plan on removing all 4 wheels and double check that the dust shields are not contacting the rotors and also pull the rear drums and inspect everything back there along with the rear axle bearings.
Update to follow.

[waleed]

I had a problem with my old yaris that was like that as well. The tires would scrap under load hitting the fender liner, or solid steel piece. Eventually just got used to it. Suspension was fine.

Also if it only began recently it could be a bent rim slightly out of round hitting something and causing the sound.

[Richard Kirshy]

Good possibilities… but not tire scraping, metal to metal
I would consider that except I have about 6 – 7 inches clearance between the top of my tires and my fenders.
A bent or out of round rim would be a constant.
No vibration, shimmy and truck tracks straight at 60 MPH with no wheel shake
This only occurs with the wheels at full left lock, come off of lock and it stops.

[waleed]

I would go in an empty parking lot or somewhere, turn the car both directions all the way and have someone else watch and see if they can hear something and where its coming from, leaving the car in the same spot.

[Richard Kirshy]

Already been done.
Being there is echo underneath, it is tough to pinpoint the exact area of the noises origin.
And as I said, it can not be replicated while lifted from the chassis or suspension.
Been chasing this for a few days now.
My last effort is to remove each wheel and have a go at the disk and drum brakes.

[Richard Kirshy]

Just spent the last 5 hours removing the wheels and going over everything.
What I found was this:
Both sides rear
Axle bearings smooth, quiet no slop.
Brakes shoes plenty of material
Wheel flange, minimal rust cleaned and fluid filmed.
Dust shields slightly deformed, reshaped both sides and cleaned off any loose scale.
Brake drums, after collapsing the adjusters they were easily removed.
Serious scale buildup, went over each one scraping 90% off.
Sanded off the rust ridge from the inside.
Scuffed the braking surface with 120 grit paper.
Cleaned and lubed the brake assemblies.
Reinstalled the drums.
Sanded the mating surfaces clean that contacts the wheels.
Reinstalled the rear wheels and torqued to 100 ft/lbs.
Readjusted the rear brakes.

Front end.
With the wheels off.
Pads are in excellent condition as well as the rotors.
Bearings are quiet and smooth with no play.
Collapsed each caliper, no issue with the slide pins.
All suspension components are in good shape.
Went around and ensured both dust shields have ample clearance from the rotors.
Sanded the mating surfaces clean that contacts the wheels.
Reinstalled the rear wheels and torqued to 100 ft/lbs.

After a test drive, the scraping noise is no longer there when at full wheel lock left or right.:)
My guess is it originated from the rear drums considering the amount of rust scale build up there was.
Though why it would only scrap when turned to a hard left is still puzzling to me.:huh:

[Todd Smith]

You probably just weren’t holding your mouth right when you were turning the steering wheel before. 😆

[Richard Kirshy]

Anything is possible B)

[Author]

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