Flat Rate vs. Hourly

[SpawnedX]

I would like to hear your opinions on flat rate versus hourly pay in the industry. Personally I do not have a problem with flat rate if the business is generating enough customers every week that each technician has the opportunity to flag at least 40 hours.

I would like to know how other technicians cope when they work on flat rate in an environment where flagging 40+ hours isn’t always an option. Do you work other jobs?

Topic

[Jake]

I feel like the whole technician pay scale on both sides of the fence are a scam. I’ve been hourly at a large tire retailer for 1.5 years and went from knowing nothing to 6 ASE’s, working on timing chains in Chrysler’s :sick: and even getting into A/C work and guess what? I’m still making the same $9/hr when I came in. I’ve asked for multiple raises but was given the “We’ll send you to flat rate soon and you’ll make more”. How much more? Guys I work with have been getting paid the same $12-$18/flat rate and some have been with the company for over 5 years.

I heard of a shop that pays it’s techs hourly like:
C – Tech $12
B – Tech $15
A – Tech $18

Then they pay on a spiff system for basic jobs:
Oil Change .50
Tires $1/per tire
Battery $1

Then for repair work, you would be paid like this:
If an A – tech does a 2 hour job, he is paid his/her normal $18/hr + an additional $18/hr for 2 hours. So for those 2 hours the A – tech would make $36/hr.

If your flag and spiffs go over 40 hours, the additional hours/spiffs are included into overtime.

Personally, I feel like a system similar to this works because you’re making some money if business is slow, but have an opportunity to make lots of money when there’s business.

[Jake]

I feel like the whole technician pay scale on both sides of the fence are a scam. I’ve been hourly at a large tire retailer for 1.5 years and went from knowing nothing to 6 ASE’s, working on timing chains in Chrysler’s :sick: and even getting into A/C work and guess what? I’m still making the same $9/hr when I came in. I’ve asked for multiple raises but was given the “We’ll send you to flat rate soon and you’ll make more”. How much more? Guys I work with have been getting paid the same $12-$18/flat rate and some have been with the company for over 5 years.

I heard of a shop that pays it’s techs hourly like:
C – Tech $12
B – Tech $15
A – Tech $18

Then they pay on a spiff system for basic jobs:
Oil Change .50
Tires $1/per tire
Battery $1

Then for repair work, you would be paid like this:
If an A – tech does a 2 hour job, he is paid his/her normal $18/hr + an additional $18/hr for 2 hours. So for those 2 hours the A – tech would make $36/hr.

If your flag and spiffs go over 40 hours, the additional hours/spiffs are included into overtime.

Personally, I feel like a system similar to this works because you’re making some money if business is slow, but have an opportunity to make lots of money when there’s business.

[Bill]

Hahaha… No Technician unions in Canada unless it’s a union company with it’s own vehicles and own shop. I believe Fed-Ex techs are unionized but I could be wrong.

There have been people who have tried to get a union started several times here. You might as well install your NARDS in a vice and tighten it very well and wear a bullet proof vest.

An Automotive Technicians union will never happen here in Canada.

[Bill]

Hahaha… No Technician unions in Canada unless it’s a union company with it’s own vehicles and own shop. I believe Fed-Ex techs are unionized but I could be wrong.

There have been people who have tried to get a union started several times here. You might as well install your NARDS in a vice and tighten it very well and wear a bullet proof vest.

An Automotive Technicians union will never happen here in Canada.

[Noel]

I went to trade school for HVAC and got a job at AutoZoo to make ends meet while going to school. Got stuck at that job fixing cars for free in the parking lot for 7 years. I got so depressed I started coming in late all the time and eventually got fired. Decided to go back to school for Automotive and trained at UTI. Started on flat rate right through the door at a chain shop.

Have been working there for two years now and am just now getting the hang of flat rate. Problem is that this chain charges one size fits all labor charges regardless of make and model. For instance, an oil change is .30 whether its a Nissan Max or a Mercedes S600. Front pads and rotors pays 1.25, on any vehicle. So when an import car came in that calls for 4.0 because of pressed on rotors on hub bearings, I had to make my case like I was on trial, they made me feel like I was a crook for asking to be paid for the work I was doing.

This place is just a stepping stone and it beats fixing cars for free in a snowy parking lot, but from what I’ve experienced and all the conversations I’ve had with other techs, it seems like this industry has been going downhill for the last 40 years. I’ve heard several old timers say they used to get 40-50% of the shop hourly rate. WHAT HAPPENED?

And it’s not just us Auto techs that this is happening to, I have friends that work on everything from washing machines to ATMs, and as the cost of living rises, their wages stagnate or they have to take pay cuts, with the exception of some that are unionized.

I also agree that the pay structure needs to change, I like the idea of getting an hourly rate plus book time for each job, I think that would keep me from putting groceries on my credit card lol.

[Noel]

I went to trade school for HVAC and got a job at AutoZoo to make ends meet while going to school. Got stuck at that job fixing cars for free in the parking lot for 7 years. I got so depressed I started coming in late all the time and eventually got fired. Decided to go back to school for Automotive and trained at UTI. Started on flat rate right through the door at a chain shop.

Have been working there for two years now and am just now getting the hang of flat rate. Problem is that this chain charges one size fits all labor charges regardless of make and model. For instance, an oil change is .30 whether its a Nissan Max or a Mercedes S600. Front pads and rotors pays 1.25, on any vehicle. So when an import car came in that calls for 4.0 because of pressed on rotors on hub bearings, I had to make my case like I was on trial, they made me feel like I was a crook for asking to be paid for the work I was doing.

This place is just a stepping stone and it beats fixing cars for free in a snowy parking lot, but from what I’ve experienced and all the conversations I’ve had with other techs, it seems like this industry has been going downhill for the last 40 years. I’ve heard several old timers say they used to get 40-50% of the shop hourly rate. WHAT HAPPENED?

And it’s not just us Auto techs that this is happening to, I have friends that work on everything from washing machines to ATMs, and as the cost of living rises, their wages stagnate or they have to take pay cuts, with the exception of some that are unionized.

I also agree that the pay structure needs to change, I like the idea of getting an hourly rate plus book time for each job, I think that would keep me from putting groceries on my credit card lol.

[Ryan]

I’m avoiding flat rate for as long as possible. Not enough business. A new guy started, probably late 20’s but he’s a senior master ford tech. Said to me today ” I’m not used to standing around” and i just laughed. He was used to 14 hour flagged days. We have 8 flat rate guys. 6 of 8 don’t make 35 hours a week. Ever.

I know i’m paid low at $13 hourly… Been there 7 years. But i get 3 hours at least overtime at 19.50 up to around 54 hours, have a 401k, dental vision, medical that the dealer pays the biggest portion of the premium for each person, disability, and life insurance. No other hourly guy (the LOF guys) is allowed overtime. I have nothing to compare me to really. I get all the stupid warranty and crazy jobs so they don’t have to clog their bays with it. That way they can work as many cash tickets as they can. I like helping them out and i don’t believe i could have this sort of relation at any other job.

[Ryan]

I’m avoiding flat rate for as long as possible. Not enough business. A new guy started, probably late 20’s but he’s a senior master ford tech. Said to me today ” I’m not used to standing around” and i just laughed. He was used to 14 hour flagged days. We have 8 flat rate guys. 6 of 8 don’t make 35 hours a week. Ever.

I know i’m paid low at $13 hourly… Been there 7 years. But i get 3 hours at least overtime at 19.50 up to around 54 hours, have a 401k, dental vision, medical that the dealer pays the biggest portion of the premium for each person, disability, and life insurance. No other hourly guy (the LOF guys) is allowed overtime. I have nothing to compare me to really. I get all the stupid warranty and crazy jobs so they don’t have to clog their bays with it. That way they can work as many cash tickets as they can. I like helping them out and i don’t believe i could have this sort of relation at any other job.

[David]

Newbie here. Is it true that once you find (or make) your niche in the shop, driveability/the alignment dude/air conditioning guru/trans whisperer/whatever, that you start doing these jobs almost all day?

I’ve heard tales of “that transmission guy” in a Chevy store doing 20 book hour (17 hour under warranty) trans rebuilds on Saturdays. Arrive 7:30, knock out 2 hours of PDI or whatever, start a trans rebuild at 9, have it back in around 3, knock out 2 more hours of simpler work, and go home with 20+ hours flagged. On a Saturday.

Seems like if you can make yourself into the __fill in the blank__ star, then the work gets easier (familiarity) and you get a reputation as the tech that does the job well/fast.

[David]

Newbie here. Is it true that once you find (or make) your niche in the shop, driveability/the alignment dude/air conditioning guru/trans whisperer/whatever, that you start doing these jobs almost all day?

I’ve heard tales of “that transmission guy” in a Chevy store doing 20 book hour (17 hour under warranty) trans rebuilds on Saturdays. Arrive 7:30, knock out 2 hours of PDI or whatever, start a trans rebuild at 9, have it back in around 3, knock out 2 more hours of simpler work, and go home with 20+ hours flagged. On a Saturday.

Seems like if you can make yourself into the __fill in the blank__ star, then the work gets easier (familiarity) and you get a reputation as the tech that does the job well/fast.

[Kevin Criswell]

[quote=”Avender” post=74557]I’m avoiding flat rate for as long as possible. Not enough business.[/quote]

I found that if you are working for a small shop (a few techs) flat rate is great. For big shops, it sucks pretty bad. Luckily I specialize in drive-ability and electrical problems so I used to stay pretty busy no matter what the system.

[Kevin Criswell]

[quote=”Avender” post=74557]I’m avoiding flat rate for as long as possible. Not enough business.[/quote]

I found that if you are working for a small shop (a few techs) flat rate is great. For big shops, it sucks pretty bad. Luckily I specialize in drive-ability and electrical problems so I used to stay pretty busy no matter what the system.

[Kevin Criswell]

The way this community operates also reminded me of another reason I dislike flat rate.

This community operates much like techs I worked with in hourly shops. Everyone has zero issues with helping others. When I worked in hourly shops I could count on help with troubleshooting or lifting heavy components into position. In a flat rate shop techs are cut throat. Often the flat rate system pits techs against each other to be faster and one way to do that is to make sure you don’t help the other guy.

In one flat rate shop I remember helping another tech that was struggling to line up a 4R70W trans. After helping him get it into position and safely bolted to the engine, he turned to me and let me know I was not going to get any time for helping him. :huh:

I didn’t help him for a chunk of his money, I did it, because it is what you are supposed to do.

[Kevin Criswell]

The way this community operates also reminded me of another reason I dislike flat rate.

This community operates much like techs I worked with in hourly shops. Everyone has zero issues with helping others. When I worked in hourly shops I could count on help with troubleshooting or lifting heavy components into position. In a flat rate shop techs are cut throat. Often the flat rate system pits techs against each other to be faster and one way to do that is to make sure you don’t help the other guy.

In one flat rate shop I remember helping another tech that was struggling to line up a 4R70W trans. After helping him get it into position and safely bolted to the engine, he turned to me and let me know I was not going to get any time for helping him. :huh:

I didn’t help him for a chunk of his money, I did it, because it is what you are supposed to do.

[Austin Hansen]

hey eric i am working for a shop and am paid hourly and i’ve really come to like diagnosing electrical problems and i would like to go to school and i would like to specialize in electrical diagnostics but i’ve been reading about the whole flat rate issue. my question is if i got really good at electrical would i have any better leverage when it comes to wage. i know you spend a lot of time on the forum answering questions so thanks in advance.

[Author]

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