Engine noise/ Power loss as engine reaches its operating temperature

[Thaik]

Hi,
I currently own a Honda Civic 2004 DX Manual and I’m experiencing a problem here.
As the engine gets warm and eventually reaches its operating temperature, I hear a knocking noise coming from the engine
from 2000-2500 RPM and it does only under load and when it’s warm.

When cold, I almost don’t hear it, the colder the engine is, the less noise you hear, there may be other noise, but it’s not knocking like when it is warm. The warmer it is, the louder you can hear it.

Also, when the noise occurs, I’m losing power, when it’s really warm, like after driving for an hour or more, the engine really feels weak and lacking power, it’s still “driveable”, but it feels like, compared to other similar vehicles, the engine isn’t behaving as it should.

Well enough talk.
Here’s a video I made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlY6uROQ8uI (don’t know why it won’t show the link)
Paste this on youtube: /watch?v=KlY6uROQ8uI

Feedback will be very appreciated

Thank you.

Topic

[EricTheCarGuy]

The minute I read that you ‘flushed out the engine’ that put up a red flag. If the engine had a lot of sludge buildup inside then it’s possible that when you did your flush that you sent all that gunk into the oil pan where it could have clogged up the oil pick up, if that were the case you might have good oil pressure to start but after driving for some time the oil pick up would have been clogged and more restricted causing a loss of oil pressure which would cause increased friction inside the engine =loss of power and engine noise. You might want to put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on the engine to see what the oil pressure actually is and if you find it to be low perhaps this video will give you a clear idea of what might be happening inside your engine. If you do find that the engine is toast I would recommend replacing it rather than rebuilding it as it will be much less expensive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2fcbTh5yw

[hbvx]

^In his defense, he did say this noise has been happening since they owned the car. There is one way to find out if it is sludged up, though.W;)

[Thaik]

Well, there wasn’t that much “gunk”.
The oil itself only seemed dirtier and darker than it was when draining the oil without using any engine oil flush/cleaner.
My problem didn’t get any worse after the engine flush. Instead, the engine seemed to run smoother, quieter, but noise didn’t disappear.

I have one question though, is it possible to replaced or do some minor bottom end repairs without removing the engine itself, but instead removing the oil pan and working beneath the car. I thought if that was possible, it would cost less in labor.

It is still hard for me to believe the engine is toasted, I mean it runs! Few days ago, I started the car after the engine had been resting for quite some time, and drove it for about 15-20 min, car ran quite well, still rough and a bit noisy when flooring to the redline almost, but no knocking. Even when the engine was warm, it didn’t do it. It’ really irregular, the noise doesn’t start always at the same time, some days, sometimes, it takes longer for the noise to appear even if the engine has warmed up.

Anyways, I’ll take the car to a mechanic to get it diagnosed to get a better idea.

Thanks again.

[dreamer2355]

To properly repair any internal engine issues, its usually best to remove the engine.

You will need to invest in some plasti-gauge, FSM as well as many measure tools to check all your bearing clearances and so forth. Then decide what type of machine work will need to be done.

Band aid fixes wont last.

You may be best to find a salvage yard unit if you believe the engine is no good.

Did you do a compression test and a cylinder leak down test?

[hbvx]

This could still perhaps turn out to be something else internally, but definitely sounds internal.

^The OP stated on page one:

Here’s the condition of the engine:
-Engine doesn’t overheat
-Engine doesn’t burn oil (using 5W-20)
-Engine has decent fuel economy
-Engine doesn’t produce white, blue or black smoke (coming from tail pipe)
-Engine has good compression test results (around 200 psi for all cylinders)
-Engine timing has been checked and is timed (timing belt done)
-Valve adjustment has been done (0.008 for intake and 0.0010 for exhaust side)
-No check engine light has appeared since the day we have the car, and noise has been present until now(not first owner)

Bottom-end…this wouldn’t have anything to do with thrust bearings? This sounds like connecting rod bearings or main bearings?

If the OP does take it to a shop, hopefully they’ll test oil pressure at least before tearing into it and give a good inspection on what is causing the noise and all affected parts; but it is more expensive to go this route. As the OP has stated, the car runs and this isn’t catastrophic yet.

IMO, it ‘could’ very well be repaired and go on to live another 200,000 miles trouble free if the rebuilder does a very good job with replacing the parts(choice of part AND the installation process; torqued properly according to FSM etc etc).

[EricTheCarGuy]

I think there is a pretty easy way to determine the health of the engine and that’s by checking the oil pressure with a manual gauge especially when the problem occurs, if you notice a drop in oil pressure at this time I’m thinking that’s pretty definitive. I don’t recommend you even ATTEMPT a rebuild especially with a Honda engine, they use a weird set up for their bearings in that they are color coated and if you don’t order the correct thickness/color you’ll be wasting your time/money and possibly damage the engine worse. I would instead recommend that if you find that internal engine damage is the cause of the problem that you replace it with a used or rebuilt unit rather than trying to rebuild the one you have, it really is a LOT more expensive to try and rebuild than it is to just do a straight up replacement and you’ll be assured of a solid result.

[hbvx]

^good advice on just buying a completely rebuilt already, it IS hard to get the exact correct replacement bearings for a Honda with their color coded system.

As Eric’s videos with the ‘repeat’ salvage engine that died after the stock engine died on the Civic in his youtube vids, well basically be sure to keep oil topped off with any engine ESPECIALLY after work was done to one recently. Good maintenance on any vehicle, but especially older vehicles of unknown state/attitude. lol

[ScannerDanner]

Quoted From EricTheCarGuy:

I think there is a pretty easy way to determine the health of the engine and that’s by checking the oil pressure with a manual gauge especially when the problem occurs, if you notice a drop in oil pressure at this time I’m thinking that’s pretty definitive. I don’t recommend you even ATTEMPT a rebuild especially with a Honda engine, they use a weird set up for their bearings in that they are color coated and if you don’t order the correct thickness/color you’ll be wasting your time/money and possibly damage the engine worse. I would instead recommend that if you find that internal engine damage is the cause of the problem that you replace it with a used or rebuilt unit rather than trying to rebuild the one you have, it really is a LOT more expensive to try and rebuild than it is to just do a straight up replacement and you’ll be assured of a solid result.

Agree 100% my friend. And to the OP as I stated earlier. Drive it until it dies.

[ScannerDanner]

Quoted From Thaik:

From this, is it correct to conclude that rebuilding an engine and buying a rebuild (That’s what I meant by rebuild) engine is the same price?

About the oil pressure gauge and tester, what is the difference between them? Won’t a mechanical oil pressure gauge do just fine as a oil pressure tester or is it that the latter is more accurate?

Thanks.

Not sure about price differences, as for the gauge, just buy the cheapest mechanical oil pressure tester/gauge you can find. No need to get to fancy with this tool. Good luck to you my friend.

[Matt]

Oil pressure testers and gages are alot different when you google them I’ve found. Make sure you specify ‘tester’, because otherwise you will get results for those worthless ‘gages’ that they want you to install on your a-pillar.

[Thaik]

Yes, I have done a compression test, but I only did a dry one, and I got good results around 200 psi for all cylinders. I didn’t however did a leak down test since it seems there wasn’t any leak to look for.

Thanks everyone, that’s what I intend to do, replace the engine, but I’m hesitating between a rebuild one and a used low engine engine. Any experience with those? Warranty, reliability, cost?

Also, I’m currently looking for a mechanical oil pressure gauge. The thing is, should I look for “Oil pressure gauge”, those that you can also put in you cabin, or should I look for “Oil pressure tester” that are basically made for diagnostics purposes?
Is the latter more accurate and better for diagnosing engine problems?

What is the price range I should look for when buying either of these products?

I found these:
http://www.equus.com/Product/6244/2%27% … -Gauge#top
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access … 59573_0_0_

First is a gauge that can be installed in the car and the other seems to be made for diagnostic purposes.
What do you think?

Although I intend on replacing the engine, I have to make sure this engine really does have indeed an internal mechanical problem before doing anything.

To ScannerDanner, I don’t intend on letting the engine die, it just doesn’t feel for me to drive like this especially for a small 4-cylinder engine like mine, there’s just too much power lacking.

Btw, what does “OP” mean? Old Post?

Thanks

[JDM_Hatch99]

Quoted From Thaik:

Yes, I have done a compression test, but I only did a dry one, and I got good results around 200 psi for all cylinders. I didn’t however did a leak down test since it seems there wasn’t any leak to look for.

Thanks everyone, that’s what I intend to do, replace the engine, but I’m hesitating between a rebuild one and a used low engine engine. Any experience with those? Warranty, reliability, cost?

Also, I’m currently looking for a mechanical oil pressure gauge. The thing is, should I look for “Oil pressure gauge”, those that you can also put in you cabin, or should I look for “Oil pressure tester” that are basically made for diagnostics purposes?
Is the latter more accurate and better for diagnosing engine problems?

What is the price range I should look for when buying either of these products?

I found these:
http://www.equus.com/Product/6244/2%27% … -Gauge#top
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access … 59573_0_0_

First is a gauge that can be installed in the car and the other seems to be made for diagnostic purposes.
What do you think?

Although I intend on replacing the engine, I have to make sure this engine really does have indeed an internal mechanical problem before doing anything.

To ScannerDanner, I don’t intend on letting the engine die, it just doesn’t feel for me to drive like this especially for a small 4-cylinder engine like mine, there’s just too much power lacking.

Btw, what does “OP” mean? Old Post?

Thanks

Rebuild = Too expensive

Swap for used engine = Much cheaper. Period.

Trust me its not worth it to rebuild that engine. You can find that same used longblock as cheap as $400.

OP = Original poster

[ScannerDanner]

Thank you JDM
I agree 100%

[ScannerDanner]

Quoted From Thaik:

Yes, I have done a compression test, but I only did a dry one, and I got good results around 200 psi for all cylinders. I didn’t however did a leak down test since it seems there wasn’t any leak to look for.

Thanks everyone, that’s what I intend to do, replace the engine, but I’m hesitating between a rebuild one and a used low engine engine. Any experience with those? Warranty, reliability, cost?

Also, I’m currently looking for a mechanical oil pressure gauge. The thing is, should I look for “Oil pressure gauge”, those that you can also put in you cabin, or should I look for “Oil pressure tester” that are basically made for diagnostics purposes?
Is the latter more accurate and better for diagnosing engine problems?

What is the price range I should look for when buying either of these products?

I found these:
http://www.equus.com/Product/6244/2%27% … -Gauge#top
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access … 59573_0_0_

First is a gauge that can be installed in the car and the other seems to be made for diagnostic purposes.
What do you think?

Although I intend on replacing the engine, I have to make sure this engine really does have indeed an internal mechanical problem before doing anything.

To ScannerDanner, I don’t intend on letting the engine die, it just doesn’t feel for me to drive like this especially for a small 4-cylinder engine like mine, there’s just too much power lacking.

Btw, what does “OP” mean? Old Post?

Thanks

Sorry about the abbreviation. You need to not even think about a rebuild. Get one out of a junk yard. Drive this one until it dies. If you chose a rebuild you could be in the 1000s of dollars.
If you want to do an oil pressure test, just buy a tester not a dash mount kit.

[Thaik]

From this, is it correct to conclude that rebuilding an engine and buying a rebuild (That’s what I meant by rebuild) engine is the same price?

About the oil pressure gauge and tester, what is the difference between them? Won’t a mechanical oil pressure gauge do just fine as a oil pressure tester or is it that the latter is more accurate?

Thanks.

[Author]

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