Driveline Vibration 60-70mph

[Vincent Patrizi]

Greetings Eric!

I am writing to you today because I believe I have exhausted all of my options in determining what is making the front end of my 2007 Honda Accord SE V6 shimmy like a 60’s Go-Go dancer between 60 and 75ish MPH. Either at the recommendation of a trusted local family-owned Goodyear dealer or just replacing parts because they showed enough wear at 160k miles (and because it allows me to do manly things with tools), I have hit a brick wall on where to turn next. I have replaced the following (front only): rotors, tires/wheels (I actually have 5 Hondas, so I had a good source of alternative wheel/tire options at my disposal), lower control arms, upper control arms, lower ball joints, strut assemblies and this weekend – both C-V shaft assemblies with new units. The vibration is still occurring. Arg!

I have also checked all four motor mounts, as many of the Honda Accord forums (and Cardone1) recommend checking those for wear as the source of prematurely wearing-out C-V joints. All of them are intact and I was unable to get the engine/trans to move much when using a jack near in the same area. I have an ’03 Odyssey that eats a front motor mount every 18-24 months. I digress…

The vibration (I can feel it in the gas pedal, and not so much the steering wheel) is most prevalent under acceleration. When I take my foot off the gas, the vibration all but disappears. Belive it or not, sometimes – like in the morning, after the car has sat all night – there is no vibration.

Any other recommendations you can make would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for all that you do in contributing to the success of shade-tree mechanics everywhere,

Vince

Topic

[EricTheCarGuy]

You might want to read through this.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/determining-the-causes-of-vehicle-vibrations

[Lorrin Barth]

If a manual transmission maybe a loose/worn overdrive (fifth) gear.

[Vincent Patrizi]

Hi Barney,

Thanks for your reply, but it’s a 5-speed automatic. I also noticed on the ride home tonight (I chose a route that had heavier traffic – less speed), that the vibration started at roughly 20mph and was consistent under acceleration at all speeds. As soon as I removed the source of torque, the vibration stopped.

I’m going to have another set of trained eyes look at the motor and trans mounts again; that source is rampant on the Accord forums.

I’m stumped.

Thanks again – Vince

[Lorrin Barth]

Well, then I guess motor mounts. Like on your Odyssey Honda motor mounts are a known issue.

[Vincent Patrizi]

At this point I have replaced everything else(sigh), and the point that it only shimmies when torque is applied, what else can it be?

Since I can feel it pretty distinctly at the firewall and I have seen that as a prevalent root cause on other forums, I’m going to start with the rear mount first. I have already visually inspected all of them (removed the C-shaped retaining covers), it’s possible all is not as it appears.

[Ingvar]

Well, before you go that route, check hub bearings, OK?

I actually never witnessed a Go-Go dencer, so I am only guessing on what exactly that is:

shimmy like a 60’s Go-Go dancer between 60 and 75ish MPH.

but hub bearings slipped your attention, I believe.

Now, here’s interesting thing from my experience with Hondas. Was valve adjustment job ever done on this car? As I had to do it to reduce unpleasant vibration in my Ridgeline.

And last but definitely not least. Your clutch bands are slipping in transmission. Honda automatics are known for transmission shake.

[Vincent Patrizi]

Thanks for your reply.

I’m pretty familiar with what to expect with bad hub bearings; they normally growl – and the pitch of the growl increases with an increase in speed. I put my 2004 Civic Si into a curb while trying to turn into the local DD on a slippery winter night. I turned…the car didn’t oblige. Took out the lower control arm, swaybar link and the wheel.

In my Accord case, no growl, no pitch and no shimmy felt in the steering wheel. In fact, there isn’t ANY steering wheel movement – with or without the brakes applied. This is why I am not targeting a wheel balance, warped rotor, bad CV- shaft or bad tire as possible root causes. Did I mention I replaced all of those already? Arg.

Interesting that you raised a question about the valve lash adjustment. I have ignored a rocker arm tick for the last 1-2 years. I purchased the valve cover and intake manifold gasket kit to do the work, but having driven 70s vintage VW bugs for a number of years, if you can hear them tick, that’s not as bad as not hearing them at all.

That said, a valve lash adjustment is something that needs to be done and I have the parts to do the work. Looks like I’ll be postponing those honey-dos another weekend…

Thanks again for the tip!

Vince

[Vincent Patrizi]

Test

[Vincent Patrizi]

Too much play?

[EricTheCarGuy]

Honestly, that does look like a lot of play. Not all reman axles are created equal. I’d recommend Mevotech, I’ve had good luck with them in the past. If there’s still that much play, it may be something inside the transmission.

I doubt the valve lash has anything to do with it. Given the difficulty of the job, I would leave that off the table for now.

Also, wheel bearings do not cause vibrations like that. Noise yes, but not vibrations. With a vibration like yours, I would say driveline, however, I would not rule out engine performance. Since it happens on acceleration, I would also check the ignition system. I believe I outlined these things in the article I posted for you.

Keep us posted.

[Vincent Patrizi]

Hi Eric!

Thanks for your reply and the article.

I removed the Cardone assembly and replaced it with my original (good thing I hung onto it); the inner joint-to-carrier connection is tight. No lateral movement, no wobble. I purchased the Cardone unit from RockAuto, so I am going to pursue a swap with your Mevotech recommendation. I am already out $60, so I am not confident that their sending me another unit of the same make and model is going to produce a miracle.

Aftermarket parts and I have never been good bedfellows, so I have tried to stick with genuine Honda parts and fluids since day one. However, Honda wants $732 list for the passenger side alone! I am typically afforded Friends and Family pricing from the local dealer, but would like to get of this parts-changing jag and root cause the issue. It’s been frustrating to say the least.

I watched your J30 Series video on adjusting lifters and bought the Snap-on tool you used. I have 160k on the clock, so the car is definitely overdue for a “lashing”…and I get to use my new toy while waiting for a replacement assembly. Happy Boy am I!

Staying Dirty…

Vince

[Vincent Patrizi]

Not the motor mounts. Every one of those bad boys were in really good shape. The front and rear were a chore to pull and reinstall, but at least I can scratch those off the list.

VP

[Vincent Patrizi]

It’s been a while since I commented to this thread, but the long an short of life lessons here is STAY AWAY FROM AFTERMARKET DRIVELINE/SUSPENSION PARTS!!

I have experienced unbelievably bad luck when it comes to trying to save a few bucks using aftermarket parts – especially those that have any connection to driveline or suspension applications.

The root cause for my problem was a bad inner left CV joint. After screwing around with “new” replacements from CardoneOne for three months, I bit the bullet and was able to purchase new Honda axle assemblies for ~ $550 from my local dealership. Since the aftermarket versions caused me so much time and aggravation, I decided to buy a digital caliper to make some comparisons between the aftermarket and Honda versions. Here’s what I found:

1. NONE of the aftermarket replacements include the mid-shaft damper. While there may be several opinions on whether they are needed or not, just remember something – someone with way more driveline experience than you felt they were necessary. I am here to tell you they were correct in doing so.
2. The race of both inner CV Joints – where they fit into the transaxle – on CardoneOne versions were several thousandths less than both the original and replacement Honda shafts. While that slop may not be an issue at slower speeds, I can vouch for the fact that it is a world of difference at highway speeds.
3. The position of the spring clips that hold the inner joints in the transaxle were off by ~3mm, which allowed for that much lateral movement. That, combined with the slop on the race would make the front end of the care shake violently at speeds above 70 MPH (no steering wheel movement, just excessive front-end vibration). So much so, that the seals on both sides of the transaxle case were damaged. Luckily, they were easy to replace and there was no damage to the carrier bearings on either side.
4. Overall Length – The CardoneOne replacements were up to an inch shorter. This difference only exasperated the other two measurement issues, because the inner joints were being forced to be near the end of their shaft insertion-to-bearing cup position extension.

I have been driving on the new set of shaft assemblies for a little over a month now and cannot tell you what a difference the investment of factory replacements has made. While my experience may not be the norm, I will never again waste my time and/or money with aftermarket driveline or suspension parts.

A big thanks to Eric and those of you who responded to my original and follow-up posts.

Happy Holidays!

Vince

[Michael]

Yup can’t beat Factory Genuine Honda replacement parts. Glad you got it fixed

[Author]

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