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[quote=”robinsonsauto” post=65439]Agree education is a must, I hope my previous post wasn’t misleading, my thoughts; you have options, I myself achieved my ASE masters (home schooled) however I started at a young age working at a shop after school, (that was my night school) even though I did not attend an educational institution I demonstrated my knowledge by passing exams and mostly through the work I performed, did this give me a disadvantage maybe I just pushed through it, and this will be expected from the highest in the class as well, if you can’t perform in the real world that paper holds very little value, fair warning; just out of school with little experience most times starts out at the bottom little pay, hired in some cases for that reason, not saying this is always the case just talking from past experience working with others in the field seeing this first hand, with Hopes the education will advance you faster as you gain experience.
On a side note, I work as an industrial mechanic by day, in this field electrical troubleshooting skills are a must, understanding and following logic, following schematics with very complex control circuits mostly all automated with precise movements, no room for error in most cases
I achieved this position by demonstrating my previous skills as an automotive tech, and got my foot in the door with no prior industrial education, started low went up quick, after a short time I approached my boss about attending some classes, they sent me to school for, basic electric, industrial electric, controls and many others over the years I now have a total of 11certs in the industrial field as well. The message I am trying to get out is, if you show enough heart, passion and wiliness you will achieve whatever you put your heart to,My summery, educating along with experience is key. How you achieve it is another topic.
Again Eric great points, wish you guys all the best
Fellow tech, Will
robinsonsauto channel banana: Had to throw banana guy in the mix we will all encounter this guy in the shop someday lol[/quote]Some good points you made here. Especially about transferring what you’ve learned in automotive to other fields. Diagnostics is a logical process. Learn how to work that way, and there is little you can’t solve.
Thanks again for your contributions.
I had totally missed this wonderful topic up to now, and I’ve just watched both videos in a straight line.
Well, I’d like to bring my example to back up my personal opinion.
When I was a boy I dreamed to become a mechanic, I have always loved taking apart things and sometimes 😆 manage to put them back together.
When time came to choose (14 years old here in Italy) I really wanted to go to a technical school where I would have learned mechanical and technical things, however my parents decided against that.
So I went to school but kept on taking apart things, my bicyles and motorbikes, but also cameras, computers , radios, vacuum cleaners, whatever 😆 😆
When time came to find employment I was more skilled with computers so I chose these as my target, however I soon found out that I needed “the piece of paper” , since my education didn’t prove I was computer-worthy.
So I took a 1 year technical computer course , I had to go to a bigger city 80kms from here to attend the lessons, and I didn’t really believe I could learn something from it, but I needed the piece of paper, so I went on.
Yeah, my point of view right at that point was that I didn’t need an education, since all I knew I had learned “the hard way” all by myself “in the field”.And guess what?
I discovered I HAD LOTS to learn from “theory”, I met other people that were already in the IT field and my point of view changed.
And that “piece of paper” did add A LOT to my knowledge by simply teaching one simple thing to me, and that is that you never never never stop learning, and every source contains some good, and one should never close his mind against some ways of learning.
Sometimes theory teaches you not how to do things , but how many things there are out there that can be done and gives you an appetite on the many possibilities on how to actually DO those things.
So my thought on this topic is that if you’re good with your hands and tools and think that you can learn everything and take apart anything, you’re really only looking to the light from the keyhole, but if you take some education you actually crack the door open and see “how deep the white rabbit hole really is” 😆
Hope this contribution enlightens some minds 😉
Live long and prosper (and stay dirty!)
10nico
I’m not an automobile technician or a mechanic. After High School I served an apprenticeship with the IBEW to become a construction electrician. After receiving my Journeyman’s Card and a Certificate of Completion from the Department of Labor, work got tight and I went to work for General Motors as a electrician. Most of it did not revolve around construction type activities but repair of production equipment and I became very good at my craft quickly. Not long after I was asked to become a Maintenance Supervisor and was very valuable to the organization in that capacity. Not having a college education held me back on promotions but I made a great living as a Maintenance Supervisor. I spent about 15 years as a Maintenance Supervisor before I was promoted to a General Supervisor while others with a college degree with less experience and qualifications were promoted ahead of me. I then was asked to be the first non college degree member of Labor Relations in the history of the organization responsible for 1,200 skilled tradesmen. Big feather in my hat as far as I was concerned. Although I did well for myself, those with college degrees were promoted faster and received a higher salary than I did. Not because they were more efficient at their respective jobs but because they held something I did not possess that the company felt was a great assest in a college degree. So their is a great value in an education with that also comes respect and rewards from those that run an origination. I did it my way but looking back I could have made a faster climb if I had just gotten a college degree.
This is just my $0.02 (I am not employed as an automotive tech), but here goes.
This idea was mentioned before – I am merely repackaging it here to bridge the gap between classroom instruction and OJT experience:
What if, the ASE tests had a large “lab practical” portion associated with them? This way, people that know how to take and pass a test, could NOT pass the ASE cert test based on book knowledge alone. They would have to show an instructor/proctor how they would fix a real-life problem (verify original problem – diagnose failure – replace component – verify fix).
This would also help technicians with lots of experience but no formal education – as long as they can show the proctor how to fix a real-world problem, they could score high marks for the lab practical. Now, understood that the written part would still be a test component, but it would not weigh as heavily. [Maybe ASE certification test grade could be 50% written, 50% lab practical?]
What if, the ASE tests had a large “lab practical” portion associated with them?
I like this idea… If you are interested in knowing if the person working on your vehicle has actually had lab experience, then you’d want someone who actually graduated from a reputable automotive program. This being the case, the individual may or may not be ASE certified, but will have hands-on real work experience.
[quote=”rt54321″ post=65658]
What if, the ASE tests had a large “lab practical” portion associated with them? This way, people that know how to take and pass a test, could NOT pass the ASE cert test based on book knowledge alone. They would have to show an instructor/proctor how they would fix a real-life problem (verify original problem – diagnose failure – replace component – verify fix).
[/quote]
The L1 is comprised mostly of real world questions. You’re given a wiring diagram and a problem and must identify where the fault lies. It’s as close as you can get while sitting in a room.
Wow. Cool! banana: EricTheCarGuy, awesome thing you got going on. This is my first post. Hello. I love what you’re doing with the forum and the videos.
I have a formal education, but I think it’s more meeting all those people, that will land a job. Making a friend in class, who gets you a job where he works. Throwing yourself into a pool of workers, can help you find a job, if carefully done correctly.
My thoughts on automotive education and ASE are that they don’t make anyone the best or the worst technician. School helps those who put forth the effort to learn and actually try, which is a slim number of the students. I graduated from an automotive program earlier this year and what I can tell everyone is most of my classmates watched domestic vs. import racing videos on Youtube instead of learning anything about how to fix them. Well anyone of them do good in the field? Maybe. Will they give automotive education a bad rap? Very much so.
My thoughts on ASE are that to me I enjoy having them. It doesn’t mean that I’m a good tech or not, just that I am giving some sort of effort to prove that I want to be in the field. Once I’m given the opportunity, then it’s time to show the actual ability I have. ASE certified or not, a technician’s ability should be based on the actual abilities they have and the attitude to improve and learn on their weaknesses.
I’ll finish by saying anyone who can “run circles around people” or “can fix cars better” because they do or do not have education or certifications need to take a hard look at their ego.
I am writing from Canada
HERE,it is mandotary for some main trades to get a certificate from the ministry after completing apprenticeship program
in order to get the certificate you write a test then for example you can work
as TRUCK&COACH mechanic
AUTOMOTIVE(CAR) mechanic
HEAVY DUTY mechanicbecause of several different reasons employers don’t want to get the responsibility and prefer to hire certified / educated mechanics.
Hello all! Glad I found this site, very cool. Just wanted to contribute my opinion for other viewers.
In my opinion tech school is a complete waste of money. Yes, you can learn a lot. However with the way the Internet is now a days, there is no reason you can’t learn on your own (methods of diag, laws, tactics, and tips). Part of why I say this is I believe experience is a LARGE majority in being a good tech (assuming you are capable to begin with and possess the right traits). The only route in which I could see tech school being beneficial is if one wanted to work for a high end/exotic dealer.
My suggestion to any new tech is to just go do it. No matter what, you are not going to start by pulling engines and diagnosing issues. You will start with tires and oil changes, and that’s how it should be. You do not need an education for this. This beginning stage will also inform yourself if you are cut out for this kind of work. From what I have seen in 3 years experience, not many people are. In fact very few people I know or have met can work as a ‘good’ tech.
As for ASE certifications I believe they mean little but are important, especially to the customers. I myself have 0 ASE certs and it has never stopped me from working at Indy shops (I grew up Indy and will probably stay Indy) and I believe I make good money especially compared to what I see most people typing. The area I am around I would expect a top tech to make ~30+ per hour and be capable of 100k+ in the right shop (Indy only I have no dealer experience). With that said I am going to try and get the ASE certs. I do think part reason on holding off is my degree in finance and most employers find that impressive enough compared to most applicants in this field. The ASE certs will be for customers as I would like to open a shop once I get a little older and have more experience.
I am pro-education all the way. Howbeit, I only have a few college credits related to mechanical repair. Most of my early years were spent studying electrical engineering. I have business, and education degrees – not automotive. However, I have years of automotive and mechanical experience. Would I be hired as a mechanic? I doubt it, because I don’t have the specific educational requirements. There are several things for employers to consider, and shop insurance is one of them. In addition, many states require that you pass a Certified Mechanic Examination of your particular state in order to repair vehicles on your own. My belief is that those who want to be career mechanics will get some schooling to learn the trade. I passed an internet program, which has helped me write about Automobile Mechanics.
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