Crate motors?

[Chris]

How do I choose a re-manufactured crate motor? I am searching online.
What do I look for?

Topic

[Chris]

Thanks. I am on it. I wonder though I have had really bad luck in the last decade. The folks around here really buy into the consumer culture scam and do not seem to understand keeping a perfectly good thing working instead of buying new unless they can charge you like its new.

[Andrew Phillips]

[quote=”94newtome” post=140838]The folks around here really buy into the consumer culture scam and do not seem to understand keeping a perfectly good thing working instead of buying new unless they can charge you like its new.[/quote]
Not just around your area. It’s everywhere.

[wafrederick]

My father is a Jasper dealer and no issues with them yet.Recently got a check from them for a warranty,a Ford Escape transmission with 2 monthes on the warranty left.They do the upgrades and find out what goes wrong from the factory.The GM 4.8,5.3,6.0 and 6.2 vortec engines,they scrap 50% of the heads during the pressure test of the middle headbolt hole when the liquid solution bubbles around it.The heads were casted wrong from the factory,this is the cause of a coolant leak not found outside of the engine.If you ever pull the valve cover of these engines finding sludge build up and an orange goo,the heads are junk.Avoid the auto parts stores remans,you take it to one of their places for warranty work and they use cheap foreign made parts.

[Chris]

OK The mechanic took out all the plugs but he only checked the two low cylinders from my compression test, 2 & 6. There was no detectable leaking in any direction! In fact we did a compression check on number 2cyl first and it was 115psi up from 105 when I did it before the oil change with Risoline.
He drove it and well he had nothing much to say. I think he is not sure why it is off. He didn’t have any recommendations for reman and he hated Jasper for sending him a bad motor. He did say was he would send motors to a shop near Portland for reman.
I went to the guy who had a Solus scanner and he hooked it up but said he couldn’t check the Injector Sync. One thing he said as he showed me the O2 reading constantly going back and forth from rich to lean that it meant my O2 sensor was good. I think that reading means something is wrong and I think it is the sync setting. I cannot find any info online describing how to use the Solus or MT2500 to check the Injector Sync which is what the dealer does with the DRBIII.
Still have the electrical guy on Wednesday and both the 1st mechanic and the mechanic with the Solus said he should be able to check the Sync. Fingers crossed. Any specific knowledge on how to use a MT2500 for this and what cartridges I would need would be great.

[Andrew Phillips]

The O2 sensor is supposed to fluctuate back and forth with alternating peaks and valleys when it is operating properly. A steady low or steady high signal would indicate a lean or rich condition is present. Your O2 sensor sounds like it is working the way it should based on that description.

I still think that the best assessment will come from a Chrysler dealer who can verify that the electronics are working, and determine whether or not the complaints you have are coming from the engine or the transmission. A compression test is not conclusive if all the cylinders aren’t measured so that you can get the deviation between highest and lowest. Ideally, a leakdown test should be done to give direction if any loss of compression is in the block or heads. Since you have had several different mechanics working on both the engine and transmission, going to the dealership is also a good idea since it is a fresh set of eyes and brains without prejudice from having previously done work on your vehicle. Without good test data, anything anyone says is just a shot in the dark and speculation without good evidence to back it up.

[Chris]

Only one guy worked on the tranny. The second opinion I got the guy only hooked up his computer and we drove a bit. I did the compression test and the guy today did the leakdown on the two low cylinders and found no leaks. The last mechanic had an MT2500 Solus scanner but he said he could not do the Injector sync with it. Dealers on the TTD list. I will tell them everything I can think of and hope they figure it out.

[Andrew Phillips]

[quote=”94newtome” post=140925] the guy today did the leakdown on the two low cylinders and found no leaks. [/quote]
This statement bothers me. ALL engines leak, even brand new ones. If some cylinders are lower than others, there is a leak somewhere. This is another reason why all of the cylinders need to be tested at the time, to compare normal from abnormal.

[Chris]

I’ll bring it up with the dealer.

[Douglas Haynes]

[quote=”cap269″ post=140926][quote=”94newtome” post=140925] the guy today did the leakdown on the two low cylinders and found no leaks. [/quote]
This statement bothers me. ALL engines leak, even brand new ones. If some cylinders are lower than others, there is a leak somewhere. This is another reason why all of the cylinders need to be tested at the time, to compare normal from abnormal.[/quote]

There is a lot wrong with what just got said…

First off you should not get a number that is ‘better’ than the previous compression test because you get a totally different kind of reading from a leakdown test; you are not going to get a pressure figure but a percentage figure. I have not done one myself for years and forget the rage you want to be I want to say 80% or above… The fact that you got a number in PS is very suspect to me.

Also only doing two cylinders is kind not good practice. Both standard compression and leakdown work best as comparative tests. You cannot just throw a compression gauge on there and declare it good or bad based on the PSI you get. Compression ratio, cylinder volume and other factors all have an effect on it. With a compression test you are more looking for a deviation from the norm to spot a bad cylinder. The leakdown is a more precise test, it gives you a real number that represents how compression each cylinder holds but it is still more useful as a test to find a cylinder that is comparatively low and then a diagnostic test to find out WHY they cylinder is low.

Go to the dealer, stop messing around with 52 different shops who are all doing half the job. Go to one place, with the proper tools to do the job, give them your complaint and let them figure it out.

[Chris]

Hmm. We did the compression test on #2 first. I had changed the oil and added the Risolone last Thursday. The intent of the Risolone was to loosen up any stuck rings. For ten years before I bought it this rig mostly sat only moving out of the garage occasionally for dump runs. The theory for the better reading on #2 is that the Risolone is working.
It doesn’t matter what the guys I have spoken to and let do tests have said, i have written up a page of all that has taken place for the dealer mechanic so that they know what they are dealing with.
He was talking in percentage points on the leak down test something like 15% was min and it met that standard.on #2 and I thing #6 was 14%

I yam I yam already. 🙂 I let ya know tomorrow after noon what they say. I’m expecting the worse and hoping for the best.

[Chris]

I went in at 8:45 for a 9. I gave the guy my write up. He asked if I would leave it. I have no idea even after asking what they are going to do beyond drive it and use the computer to check codes. I asked that they drive it up hills at 25-30mph and take it on the hwy at least 65mph. the Service counter guy would not be any more specific about what they might do and was rather discouraging about whether or not they would figure it out. He was not sure if I would be hearing from him today or not.

[Douglas Haynes]

[quote=”94newtome” post=141019]I went in at 8:45 for a 9. I gave the guy my write up. He asked if I would leave it. I have no idea even after asking what they are going to do beyond drive it and use the computer to check codes. I asked that they drive it up hills at 25-30mph and take it on the hwy at least 65mph. the Service counter guy would not be any more specific about what they might do and was rather discouraging about whether or not they would figure it out. He was not sure if I would be hearing from him today or not.[/quote]

That’s frustrating; you gave them what they needed to really track down the problem and it sounds like they ignored it.

[Chris]

Yea he made no effort to ask me any questions. He did mention injectors and I told him they were new.
What I wrote up was a page and a half but it seems like it should have been right on. Maybe he knew some of the shops I mentioned and didn’t want to have to say they did something wrong? He was real positive and acted right on the phone then he just well, I left knowing less than I thought I did when I drove in. That is never a good sign.

[Chris]

It is late in the day and I have not heard from them. Here is the write up I gave them to assist in diagnosing it. I inserted “shop name” and other clever devices for the proper names I listed on the original. It isn’t as confusing as it might seem at first each different person or shop has a specific name.

For Dodge dealer
Original issue since purchase Sep 2013;
Transmission is shifting with no pattern and the RPMS stay too low. If I get them up they drop off even while I am still accelerating or climbing. If I punch it they go up for a few seconds then back down almost as if something is forcing them down tying to stop the motor from making power.
On hills the truck feels very weak and the power it has on the flat seems to disappear unless I floor it. It just won’t climb normally shifting, as it needs to on its own. The motor ran smoothly with no noise other than what sounded like a lifter on hills or vibration.

What I have done to the truck.
I have put in a new EGR, timing chain and tensioner, Hughes Engines Plenum, TPS, IAC, MAP, Cam Sensor, Crank Sensor, intake Air temp and the two coolant temp sensors, Oil sensor, pcv valve, plugs, cap, rotor, wires coil. I disconnected the ECM and cleaned the pins with CRC lectra motive cleaner and used Dielectric grease on them.
I took it in to Radiator Shop on 11th for a motor flush radiator check and coolant fill after I did the Timing chain and Plenum at the same time. I also changed the oil (Jiffy Lube whatever stock oil they use for this vehicle) and then changed it again a few weeks later sacrificing the first one to make sure anything floating in it was let out.

After all that work the original issue that would seem to get better with each change came back. I took it to Shop Name asking them to test the motor to see if they could find anything wrong with it. I did not give them symptoms I wanted them to find what the proper tests would. They told me the motor was fine, “It may have a slight miss”!? There was no code for it. They instructed me to get the tranny rebuilt and recommended TrannyShopname. That was last summer. I went in to have it done at TrannyShopname earlier this year and TrannyShopname Owner said he would rebuild it with all updates and improved parts. It felt good after I got it and did OK around town but slowly the original issues as described came back with a new issue, the motor has a shudder in it that feels like something rotating with the motor is out of round. It is very noticeable now. I took it back to the tranny guy this was one of the issues aside from it still shifting with no pattern and the RPM issue. He kept it overnight and said it was my motor. He said it was missing. Now it has a radiator leak.
I was frustrated. After cooling off the next day I did a compression test with my Harbor Freight kit. I have never done one before but it seemed simple enough.
I did dry then wet and cranked it 5 times each cylinder. In order down the sides front to back.
Cyl 1- dry 135psi wet172psi
Cyl 3- dry 132psi wet179psi
Cyl 5- dry140psi wet185psi
Cyl 2- dry105psi wetq42psi
Cyl 4- dry130psi wet185psi
Cyl 6- dry122psi wet165psi
Even knowing nothing I figured that was bad. I was referred to by Radiator Shop guy (I trust him) to Owner at Different shop. I showed him that result and he gave me the bad news. Then I asked him to come listen to the motor and he immediately said I must have done something wrong because the motor was running too good for that result to be right. He suggested I go to see Ind. mechanic X. Ind mechanic X had no solutions and was very busy. I ended up speaking to Owner at Different shop on the phone later thinking that he might do a correct compression test for me. He said it would be a waste of my money, He said I should change the oil and add one quart of Marvel Mystery oil or Risolone in place of one of the quarts. He then said I might go see Different Tranny man at X Transmissions. I spoke to Different Tranny man, he was free right then so I drove out there. He hooked up his SnapOn scanner and we drove it up and down Hwy on the flats. He said he could not see it doing anything wrong. Wouldn’t ya know it didn’t act up. I took it in and had the oil changed they told me my rad cap was bad and a turn signal was out. I replaced both after the oil change.
On Friday I spoke to the mechanic who shares Different Tranny Man’s space with him and he said he could do a leak down test on Monday. Monday he took out the plugs. Had me crank it for 6 cranks and said the #2 cyl pressure was now 115psi (I suspect that improvement may be the extra crank) He then got out his SnapOn leak down tool and tested Cyl#2 and #6 then put all the plugs back in and he drove it. He seemed to think the test on the two bad cylinders indicated there was no problem leakage via the head or crankcase. I think it was just at the limit of the acceptable range.

I happen to suspect the fuel Injector sync is off. I also saw something about a TSB on the ECM’s causing issues with smooth acceleration. I could not find the TSB itself.
It ran without shuddering until the tranny rebuild.
I don’t feel safe because I cannot rely on it to do what it should without me having to think about it all the time. I almost got hit merging when it lost RPM’s as I went through 50mph. It kept accelerating but at a much slower rate forcing the guy I was merging in front of to change lanes when he should not have had to. Its hell on gas as well when I have to punch it all the time and can’t just smoothly accelerate.

I found this link today the second list is for the 3.9/ There are several tranny TSB’s. I had the safety recall done. Chrysler told me to get it done when they sent the build sheet. The stock steering wheel cover can trap the keys. http://www.dakota-truck.net/TSB/2wd94

[James O’Hara]

Where I used to live $4K was the going rate for an automatic transmission rebuild for any Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth. They fail so often the people rebuilding them know all the tricks etc and if not learn at a rapid rate. I am going to give you information you can take it or leave it but, I am not liable if you do something wrong or blow something up (though likely you will have found your problem)

It is an automatic transmission, It is going to shift at different rpms depending on engine load and accelerator pedal demand. If it is way out of whack the symptoms you describe are a Transmission Control Module, Shift Solenoid(s), communication to the ECM or TCM, or engine.

You have put a lot of money into this vehicle. You have changed a ton of parts. None of which have fixed the problem. This creates an issue in to itself because now the variables are much higher because to err is human. Everyone makes mistakes and you have a new symptom which is likely a mistake due to the number of parts swapped. Now is not the time to get mad. Now is the time to get back to basics. I am going to suggest you do a series of none invasive tests aka we are going to stop swapping parts and diag the old way aka without a scan tool.

Pre-test Environment. Quiet no kids put cell phone on silent or record a video of it all and upload it to youtube for us to listen. aka get rid of distractions. A cup of coffee or your favorite caffinated drink already drank 15-20mins prior and working on 2nd cup/drink. You are attentive and you have all your senses going, smell, feel, sight, etc. Your off foot rest it against the vehicle footwell wall. One hand on the window ledge. One hand on the steering wheel. We are now ready to begin. Make sure a/c is off.

First let the vehicle cool (overnight would be best). Lower the windows in the car. Pop open the hood. Make sure the transmission stays in neutral. Now slowly and I do mean as slowly as you can push the accelerator down. Listen for any drop outs surges etc. Go all the way to right before red line on your rpm guage. If it does drop out or surge see if you can recreate it at the rpm range it did it at.

Second do a snap throttle test. See what the response time is of the engine. SO same setup as above only this time you are mashing it to the floor and as soon as it hits the floor let off the pedal.. Let the engine recover (aka get back to idle and sit there for 10-15 secs) and do it again at least 5 times. The engine should not die. It should not hesitate but, the newest of the new vehicles like 2013+ tend to hesitate slightly. As soon as you let off it should drop quickly it may even sound like it does not run for a brief second but, as long as it recovers and lets the rpms drop back down to normal idle without any weird noises, shakes, etc this indicates everything is ok.

By this time the engine is likely warm. So repeat steps 1+2. See if the results vary.

Now let the vehicle idle. Does it feeling like it is missing aka is there a flutter to the smoothness. This is best felt or heard so closing your eyes concentrating on feel then switch to sound helps. You are going to want to repeat this as well when the engine is cold but, that can be done later.

Next Torque converter stall test. I am mainly throwing this one in there because you say it feels like it is out of whack during rotation of the engine and you just had the transmission rebuilt. Power Braking Test or Stall Speed Test

With all of those done. Let the vehicle idle for a min or two. then switch on the a/c. Now let it idle with the a/c on does it surge, miss, stutter with it on.

Ok now with all that done you need a hill you can go down without the car running. Only do this if you feel comfortable and Only do this if you do not have electric steering and do not have electric brakes. Otherwise your steering wheel will lock or you will not be able to stop except using the emergency brake. I doubt you have electric brakes as they are extremely new and if you have a power steering reservoir you do not have electric steering. You want to be going a decent speed 10-20mph. Listen look feel. This will help you discern whether you have a drive train issue causing your vibration/shudder.

Okay that is the basics. Look forward to seeing some results of those simple tests.

[Author]

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