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Hello ladies and gents,
New to the site but a HUGE fan of youtube videos from ETCG. Here’s my problem:
I have a 2000 Toyota Corolla LE, standard shift, 121,000 miles. About 2 weeks ago, all was fine as I was driving, but then noticed a sluggish response when I stepped on the pedal. The CEL started flashing for a minute, then stayed on steady. I went to autozone and had it checked with the OBD tester. It showed code P0304-misfire cylinder 4, along with an O2 sensor as a secondary code.
I bought and installed 4 new iridium plugs and reset the CEL and the car ran much better….for about a half day. The misfire started again but no CEL this time. Well, I figured that the coil packs should probably be replaced also, so I did this too. I replaced all 4. Started it up and the idle sounded strong…I thought this was the fix. Took the car for a 20-mile test drive and ran it hard. It ran GREAT!!!! At the end of the test drive, I pulled into my driveway and it started the misfire again, but not as bad as before.
I pulled the plugs and the threads were pretty darn wet with what I believe is oil. It didn’t smell like gas so I ruled that out. Before I start changing every part that I’ve seen that “COULD” cause a misfire, I figured I’d run it through this forum first.
A few other things that may or may not be important:
-the car kicks out a nice poof of smoke from the tailpipe during a misfire.
-misfire seems stronger after having gone down a steep hill, stopped at a stop sign, and then accelerating from the stop sign. (not while stopped at the sign, just after leaving the stop)
-when in neutral and at idle, when I push the pedal (or the throttle cable), it sounds like the engine takes a quick “Gasp” of air before the RPM increases.
-Still excellent fuel economy—36/gal combined on average (I edited this post to include this information, since you’ll see an entry mentioning this by me below)I’ve seen things suggesting the IAC, MAF, PCV, etc. etc. I have not replaced or cleaned any of those yet. I guess I could, but I’m thinking something is going on right after replacing the plugs and wires. The car runs great immediately after the change, but then it goes back to its shenanigans.
Should there be oil anywhere on the plug? Or is it supposed to be on the threads? If not, should I replace the valve cover gasket that has the spark plug gaskets included?
I’m at a loss and I appreciated any and all suggestions. I’m trying to be a DIY mechanic like ETCG says we can all be (to an extent). I really, really want to fix this myself so I can say that I did it (with some help from here, of course)
Thanks in advance.
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Thank you for the reply and the info. Yeah, it’s under acceleration. Always after pulling out from a stop at the bottom of a hill, and always when a misfire occurs, which isn’t always. Heck, today I drove about 15-20 miles in all types of load conditions and it didn’t misfire once. Go figure.
[quote=”TonyTwoGloves” post=67297]Karl,
I greatly appreciate the information and I understand what you’re saying. I guess my next question is whether or not it’s worth repairing/replacing, as the value of a repair is probably more than the car is worth. I don’t know what’s involved with the “ring issue” and I clearly can’t do this job myself. I neither have the tools or the know-how. What is the repair, and what’s the average cost of that repair.
Gotta run but will check back later. Your responses are greatly appreciated and welcomed.
Thanks again.[/quote]
If you have mechanical skills and some basic tools and a cherry picker you can easily replace this engine. I have done this for people and it is so easy I can do it in a day and I only charge $500 for a Corolla engine installation. The next time I do one I will photo and document the engine swap and post it here.
You can get a salvage engine for around $600 for a non VVT engine (1998-1999) and around $1000 for a VVT engine (2000-2002). Prices can vary, especially when on craigslist. I recently bought a perfectly good Toyota 3.0 engine for $200 (without the plenum) that was in excellent shape.
Guys like me pay 500-700 for a good condition, non-running 8th Gen Corolla because they are easy to work on, plentiful and have cheap parts readily available. The engines are shot because of that oil burning issue. A good running Corolla sells for around $2000-3000. Flipping these cars is easy…
As said before, this engine needs major work. An engine swap is a quick way of doing this.
Until then adding parts is a waste of money and time… Your options are to repair (using the link I posted earlier), replace (swap the engine) or drive it until it expires.
Sorry about your situation… I know it sucks…
Karl
Sounds like the rings are the issue. To help confirm this you should get your hands on a compression tester. Many auto parts stores rent them out.
On each cylinder; hook up the compression gauge, turn over the engine (about 6-9 rotations) and record the pressure and how quickly the pressure built up. Using an oil can or a very large, plastic tipped syringe, spray oil into the cylinder and repeat the compression test.
If any cylinder presents a dramatic difference between the “dry” reading and “wet” reading, then you have more evidence pointing toward bad rings. If there is very little difference between the “wet” and “dry” test, then you can pretty much rule out rings and start gravitating toward a head gasket issue.Do not compare one cylinder’s performance to another’s. At this point, only compare individual cylinder’s “dry” performance to that same cylinder’s “wet” performance.[quote=”thisisbuod” post=67357]Sounds like the rings are the issue. To help confirm this you should get your hands on a compression tester. Many auto parts stores rent them out.
On each cylinder; hook up the compression gauge, turn over the engine (about 6-9 rotations) and record the pressure and how quickly the pressure built up. Using an oil can or a very large, plastic tipped syringe, spray oil into the cylinder and repeat the compression test.
If any cylinder presents a dramatic difference between the “dry” reading and “wet” reading, then you have more evidence pointing toward bad rings. If there is very little difference between the “wet” and “dry” test, then you can pretty much rule out rings and start gravitating toward a head gasket issue.Do not compare one cylinder’s performance to another’s. At this point, only compare individual cylinder’s “dry” performance to that same cylinder’s “wet” performance.[/quote]I did rent a compression tester from AZ (my second post on this thread). Everything checked out good with the dry and wet tests, so compression wasn’t the issue. I was reading the corolla forum on Toyota nation and saw that this problem is huge with the 8th Gen corollas as Karl posted. The holes in the rings get clogged and all you’re left with is a rebuild or swap. I can’t rebuild an engine-don’t have the know-how, tools, or patience to do it. Swapping may be too expensive, considering the car isn’t worth that much. Body is in great shape, but I doubt that I want to put the $$ into a 14 year old car. I’m thinking the time has come to trade it in or sell it outright…..I’d still like to get the misfire fixed first….it has become personal now!!!
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=67355][quote=”TonyTwoGloves” post=67297]Karl,
I greatly appreciate the information and I understand what you’re saying. I guess my next question is whether or not it’s worth repairing/replacing, as the value of a repair is probably more than the car is worth. I don’t know what’s involved with the “ring issue” and I clearly can’t do this job myself. I neither have the tools or the know-how. What is the repair, and what’s the average cost of that repair.
Gotta run but will check back later. Your responses are greatly appreciated and welcomed.
Thanks again.[/quote]
If you have mechanical skills and some basic tools and a cherry picker you can easily replace this engine. I have done this for people and it is so easy I can do it in a day and I only charge $500 for a Corolla engine installation. The next time I do one I will photo and document the engine swap and post it here.
You can get a salvage engine for around $600 for a non VVT engine (1998-1999) and around $1000 for a VVT engine (2000-2002). Prices can vary, especially when on craigslist. I recently bought a perfectly good Toyota 3.0 engine for $200 (without the plenum) that was in excellent shape.
Guys like me pay 500-700 for a good condition, non-running 8th Gen Corolla because they are easy to work on, plentiful and have cheap parts readily available. The engines are shot because of that oil burning issue. A good running Corolla sells for around $2000-3000. Flipping these cars is easy…
As said before, this engine needs major work. An engine swap is a quick way of doing this.
Until then adding parts is a waste of money and time… Your options are to repair (using the link I posted earlier), replace (swap the engine) or drive it until it expires.
Sorry about your situation… I know it sucks…
Karl[/quote]
Well, I have limited mechanical skills, although I can follow directions easily. I’ve done quite a few things on this car myself, but only after watching it on a youtube video or having someone show me. I wouldn’t attempt a swap myself, so where are you located??
But if I would get an engine from a salvage yard, it would still need the rings redone, right? Especially if the issue is with those generation years?
As always, getting a salvage yard engine is a crap shoot. Most of the time they give you a 60 or 90 day guarantee. I have gotten some good and some bad engines… The Corolla I drive now has an engine from a salvage yard and uses no oil…I have driven it over 11k miles with not one issue…. So it is not true of all engines… The 1.8 engine just needed to have its oil changed regularly (I recommend every 3k for this engine and the Toyota 3.0 engine)
Unfortunately, if you pay someone to put in a salvage yard engine, then yes, you do run a chance of eating the labor cost if it is a bad engine (This has happened to me when I replaced a guys engine and the head gasket went 30 days later)….
I am located in Central Ohio (near Columbus) and will be at the ETCG get together this weekend.
All the best..
Karl
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=67362]As always, getting a salvage yard engine is a crap shoot. Most of the time they give you a 60 or 90 day guarantee. I have gotten some good and some bad engines… The Corolla I drive now has an engine from a salvage yard and uses no oil…I have driven it over 11k miles with not one issue…. So it is not true of all engines… The 1.8 engine just needed to have its oil changed regularly (I recommend every 3k for this engine and the Toyota 3.0 engine)
Unfortunately, if you pay someone to put in a salvage yard engine, then yes, you do run a chance of eating the labor cost if it is a bad engine (This has happened to me when I replaced a guys engine and the head gasket went 30 days later)….
I am located in Central Ohio (near Columbus) and will be at the ETCG get together this weekend.
All the best..
Karl[/quote]
Thanks Karl for the time you took to educate me on this issue. I guess I should’ve done my homework on this generation prior to purchase, although I got the car on the cheap about a year and a half ago. Still runs great (when it doesn’t misfire), and still gets upward of 36 mpg combined. 5-speeds are great! Anyway, it’s probably time to cut my losses. Get the misfire fixed, or not, and then unload it. Thanks again for the assistance and time.
Follow the evidence. If the wet and dry compression tests were good then it probably isn’t rings. You may have carbon build up in the cylinder(s) (from oil) causing the misfire. Try swapping out your pcv valve, clean the plugs off, and see what you get.
Tony,
This is to educate all the well intentioned posters who have not owned three Generation 8 Corollas and work on Toyotas on almost a daily basis about your situation…
Tony’s situation is a known mechanical problem……
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/131-8th-generation-1998-2002/402362-diy-oil-consumption-fix.html
-Karl
[quote=”thisisbuod” post=67364]Follow the evidence. If the wet and dry compression tests were good then it probably isn’t rings. You may have carbon build up in the cylinder(s) (from oil) causing the misfire. Try swapping out your pcv valve, clean the plugs off, and see what you get.[/quote]
I appreciate the information and response. I did change the PCV valve (new one), changed plugs, coil packs, cleaned MAF…..same misfire. It comes and goes.
The links that Karl posted-those are the ones I read that convinced me that it’s more likely than not the rings. People posting on those threads in the Toyota forums all described the symptoms that my Corolla is experiencing regarding oil consumption. Apparently it was a flaw in the build of the engine and will eventually rear its ugly head. I think I’d just better cut my losses and trade it or sell it.
I just wish I could fix that damn misfire before I sell. Any other suggestions? It only occurs on cylinder #4, and only fouls that plug.
The only things I haven’t changed are the EGR, IAC, and O2 sensor. I’m not sure what else to change/clean.
Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Like I said–I want to conquer the misfire problem…it’s become personal…GRRRRR :angry:
[quote=”thisisbuod” post=67431]What is the “flaw” you mentioned?[/quote]
The real problem is simply that they didn’t have enough (or large enough) oil drain holes in the pistons.
After reading the toyotanation forum on this generation corolla, it was amazing how many other owners had this same oil consumption issue, and there is only one fix. Otherwise, it’s a new engine. Pretty interesting reading. Karl put a couple links up on this thread.
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=67365]Tony,
This is to educate all the well intentioned posters who have not owned three Generation 8 Corollas and work on Toyotas on almost a daily basis about your situation…
Tony’s situation is a known mechanical problem……
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/131-8th-generation-1998-2002/402362-diy-oil-consumption-fix.html
-Karl[/quote]
Karl….or Anyone who may have an answer,
I’ve noticed something strange that occurs, and hopefully you can shed some light on why this happens. Here it goes:
With the oil burning and misfire issues with my car, I’ve noticed that if I take the car out of gear when approaching stops, especially downhill stops, the car does not misfire and does not blow out a big poof of smoke from the tailpipe when I continue from said stop. I’m barely burning oil while employing this method of “neutral coasting”, whereas before I was going through quarts like crazy. It’s obviously easy to do since it’s a manual transmission. I guess I’m wondering why it would seem to “cooperate”, for lack of a better word, when employing this method.
I know very very little about engines, and I’m sure there’s some explanation out there. It’s just really strange to me. I’m thinking that I can drive it like this and use it as a second car until it eventually kills over. I just don’t want to trade it in and have a dealer give me a few hundred. It’s worth more than that in its present condition.
Thanks in advance.
Tony
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