clutch issues

[ed k]

I own a 2010 scion xB with a manual transmission and have been having some issues with the clutch…….. when the car is cold I have to let the clutch out slowly when first setting off because the clutch engagement is not smooth, it almost chatters. It also does this even when its warmed up lately. It is worse when the car has been sitting and its been raining or humid out or cold. Once I get moving it feels fine through the gears as it gets up to speed. Its mostly only when setting off….. you can even feel a slight chatter when letting off the clutch very slightly. These “chattering” symptoms have been in addiction to what I can describe as a “gritty” feeling in the clutch pedal. This is typically when its “hot” such as very warm weather or if I’ve been stuck in traffic for an extended period of time. Sometimes it will feel fine but others it will feel like your pushing the pedal through sand paper.

I took the car to the dealer twice around june last year for the “gritty” feeling in the clutch as well as the shifter being a bit notchy and they “adjusted” a few things with the pedal and linkage but they said it was otherwise fine. The car is still under the powertrain warranty but it only covers the clutch master and slave cylinders if they are bad. The car only has 52k on it, I bought it in January of last year with 31k…… the car did sit for 6 months new and another 6 months before I bought it, not sure if that matters.

to this point I have never felt the clutch slip just “chatter” and I did the test of putting it in a high gear when stationary and slowly letting the clutch out……. it engaged normally and stalled the engine as it should

i’m hoping that it may possibly be a hydraulic issue such as maybe flushing the clutch fluid (not sure if it will matter but the clutch hydraulics are fed from the brake master cylinder and the fluid is original) or perhaps a worn out slave cylinder

I am a realist and know it could be an actual clutch/pressure plate/throwout bearing/flywheel issue and not so lucky for me the entire subframe would have to be dropped to get access

i am thinking about taking it to the dealer again to have them diagnose it, however i have a feeling they will try to blow smoke up my ass either saying they couldn’t “replicate the issue” or just tell me it needs a new clutch (i haven’t gotten a quote yet but i already know they will want more than $1k for the job) i’ll have to pay to have it looked at plus pay for a rental so i know i will have to pay some $ out of pocket regardless, i just want to see if there is something i may be able to do before i take it to them

so what do you guys think?

thanks for your help

Topic

[none]

My first thought is to grease the shaft that the throwout bearing rides on. Look for any scoring or galling beforehand, but get some grease on it first if there’s some access point that allows you to not pull the transmission for now.

[ed k]

thanks for the reply; i think i remember there being a small access panel unter the that area so i will get it up on the ramps and look at it

any particular type of grease you recommend?

[Lorrin Barth]

The chatter on engagement is the clutch itself. There is only one fix – replacement. My car had a clutch that chattered and I lived with it until the clutch wore out – close to 90K miles. It never got worse or better. The original clutch was from the factory and the new clutch is OEM and it is smooth as silk. I have no explanation.

The gritty feeling could be lack of lubrication, either the pedal mechanism or perhaps the slave rod if you have an external slave cylinder – and you probably don’t. Any other possible causes would live inside the bell housing and only be accessible at clutch replacement time.

[ed k]

thanks for the reply, it does have an external slave cylinder so i will peel back the boots and see if there is anything that can be greased and will see if i can access the release bearing through the access panel tonight

could it be possible that perhaps the brake is old and flushing do anything?

[Lorrin Barth]

Brake fluid loves water and will suck it right through the rubber hoses but slowly. So eventually it might get wet enough to do damage to metal parts. Usually, the reason for flushing the clutch hydraulic system is to get out air.

On the actual service brakes of the vehicle it is a good idea to flush periodically because wet brake fluid has a low boiling point. So, if you live in the mountains or in some situation where you use the brakes hard you could lose all braking when the fluid gets hot and boils.

[ed k]

i’ve been looking at forums for clutch issues from a scion tc (same engine and trans) and came across this thread to do with a clutch job

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/scion-tc-1g-drivetrain-power-1637/diy-clutch-flywheel-install-scion-tc-138067/

it looks like there is access through the opening for the clutch fork so i will try to grease it on the pivot point and the fork itself….. doubt it will do anything but it’s worth trying

[Lorrin Barth]

If it is something you feel with your foot you should be able to feel it with your hand. I’d suggest having an assistant slowly work the clutch pedal while you search for where the vibration (or whatever it is) feels strongest in an effort to pinpoint the problem.

[ed k]

*update*

i ended up buying a tube of syl-glide and greased up the pivot point of the slave cylinder to the clutch fork and got as much of it on the fork itself that my fingers could reach

suprisingly it worked, the ‘gritty’ feeling in the pedal is much less than it used to be

the chatter is also reduced but its been warmer lately and that may be helping

thanks everyone for your help

[EricTheCarGuy]

I think your fix is only temporary. To me it sounds like you need a clutch. Mileage is irrelevant with a clutch. I’ve seen people wear out clutches at 12K. It just depends on how you drive. More info on these issues here.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-transmission-problems

Good luck and keep us posted.

[ed k]

*update*

after driving it a few days i’m having mixed results…… the “gritty” feeling is almost completely gone as well as the “chattering”…. however something doesn’t quite feel right with the clutch…. not sure exactly what it is or how to describe it but its not right

I did the “handbrake” test on it again and passed perfectly (3rd gear) so the clutch is not slipping

i’m starting to contemplate whether or not I should get the clutch replaced now or wait until it really goes…… I called the dealer and they want in the range of $1.3k – $1.5k to do the job depending on which parts it needs……. i can tell you i don’t have that kind of $$ available at the moment

however, i know a mechanic who could do the job only costing me labor and i can buy the parts myself…… he is a top shelf mechanic and used to work for Honda just like ETCG lol…….i used to work for a retail auto parts store so i used to sell to him quite a bit, he wrenches on cars at nights and weekends for extra $$……. he replaced the transmission in my camry for only $250 so i imagine he would probably charge roughly the same for my clutch job (if its the weekend i’ll even help) i’m seeing clutches go for less than $200 for my toaster and i was also thinking of replacing the flywheel and i saw one for $100….. so all in it would cost me roughly $500-600

i can still drive the car perfectly fine as it is, however i don’t know if it will get better or worse…… i like to fix things on my car before they go such as brake pads and even the transmission in my camry….. i knew it would go at some point so i had it replaced before it left me stranded……… it worries me that the clutch could take a crap on me and would force me to take it to the dealer or some other shop i don’t know and get screwed…… i also work in aftermarket “crash” parts now so i don’t really see my mechanic anymore so if i wait until it really goes down the road he may be less inclined to do the job or charge more $$

i am thinking of having one of my mechanics drive it to get their opinion before i do anything, but what do you guys think?

thanks

[Lorrin Barth]

A clutch failing just from wear, as apposed to the pressure plate or disc springs breaking, goes away slowly. It will first slip at wide open throttle in high gear. Then, over time this slippage will work its way down through the gears. I had a clutch first slip over a 4th of July holiday and replaced it at the end of September.

On the other hand, my wife’s Subaru has had the clutch smoked a couple of times but it refuses to slip on the road. We use it to pull our little sailboat and I don’t trust it. I don’t want to end up in the lake. So it will get a new clutch.

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